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storyist vs scrivener / storymill / writer's cafe


anko roze

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hey there storyist using types! ;)

 

i'm currently evaluating novel writing software for the mac with the view to adopting a main new tool for current and future projects (series of novels). so far i've settled on storyist and the other three mentioned in the title as the most interesting looking candidates.

 

i must say, having looked briefly in more detail at these four options, storyist is the one that seems the most immediately approachable from a 'just makes sense' point of view, for me at least.

 

now, to my mind, this could be either: because storyist is the most 'obvious but shallow' in terms of its available features and methods while the other three offer different sets of 'deeper but less obvious' functions and methods that may become very useful with more commitment to learning their 'whys and wherefores', or, it could be that storyist is just more well designed in terms of being a more natural fit for my personal way of thinking and working.

 

since it would take a considerable investment of time to evaluate all four softwares in great depth, i thought i'd start instead by asking here on the storyist forums whether anyone has comparative experience with any of the other three and storyist and could give me any honest pro and cons they might have encountered?

 

my initial thoughts about what these writing softwares _don't_ have in common, would be that scrivener seems very rigorously 'hierarchical structure' oriented, storymill has it's 'timeline' feature (which may not actually be as useful as it seems in a lot of cases), writer's cafe has its interesting 'storylines' method of laying out scenes in multiple threads and views, and, to my mind at least, on the initial look i've had, storyist seems the focused and 'integrated' from the point of view of producing novel manuscripts.

 

if it's not considered good manners to mention other story writing software in this sort of comparative way on the storyist forums i apologize in advance and will just drop the topic!

 

thanks in advance for any replies if it's ok to ask this here,

anko.

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since it would take a considerable investment of time to evaluate all four softwares in great depth, i thought i'd start instead by asking here on the storyist forums whether anyone has comparative experience with any of the other three and storyist and could give me any honest pro and cons they might have encountered?

Hello Anko. Welcome to the forums.

 

I too have been on that never-ending quest for the perfect writing software. I've used Scrivener, Storymill (in 2006, back when it was called Avenir) and have played with Writer's Cafe (a little, because I was amused by the fact that I could run it from a borrowed USB drive). I've also used other writing products (including Word and Nisus) but didn't care for their non-novel orientation. This is my main problem with Scrivener (by the way); it's great for collecting and organizing general information but I found it rather weak when it came down to actually writing novels or screenplays. If I were still in school I'd probably be using Scrivener for my term papers but not for a creative writing class. Storyist organizes novel-related data (characters, settings, your own collections, etcetera) very well and has a place for general data (maps, PDFs, Web links, etcetera) in a freeform Notebook. It's templates make novel and screenplay formatting a snap. Its outliner is good (but could be better) and its collage view (which allows you to collect story elements willy nilly) has a lot of potential depending on the user's imagination. A formal timeline function is missing but can be simulated. I'd like to see a word and phrase frequency feature (as in "OMG. I used 'pusillanimous' as an adjective a gazillion times!").

 

I don't feel competent to discuss the strengths and shortfalls of Storymill and Writer's Cafe since my experience was very limited and years ago. But I do remember liking Storyist better.

 

One very important aspect of Storyist is that it can adapt to your process (unlike Scrivener). Here in the forums we talk about Plotters, who work out everything before they write word one, and Pantsers, who dive right in and write from the seat of their pants (often working out things as they go along and documenting them in Storyist). I'm sure most people are somewhere in between but my point is that Storyist can handle either. It doesn't force you to work any one particular way. Storyist has no philosophy! Which is a brilliant philosophy. (It's worth noting that many Storyist templates are actually structured along the lines of established story structures, should you want that.)

 

I don't see any point in a feature-by-feature comparison. To really know a product you have to play with it. So my advice to you is to download a copy from Storyist.com and play with it for a while.

-Thoth

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Hello Anko. Welcome to the forums.

 

[...]

To really know a product you have to play with it. So my advice to you is to download a copy from Storyist.com and play with it for a while.

-Thoth

 

Thoth, thanks for the reply.

 

i've been looking at the 'trial' varieties of all the four including storyist, and ended up at the point where i sent this message. ;)

 

i should have made clearer that storyist seems like the 'winner' to me at the moment, but i was mainly interested if anyone could point out to me any 'super advantage' to one of the other three contenders that i haven't realized.

 

i should probably move along to asking a few more specific questions about storyist features to help me confirm my almost made decision.

 

all the best,

anko

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i should point out that in terms of the 'philosophy' spectrum you mentioned, i would characterize myself as a mixture of both extremes. ;) i tend to alternate bursts of avid and scattered 'panstering' with bursts of structured 'plotter' outlining/assembly/integration of the panstered materials. :|

 

- anko

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i should point out that in terms of the 'philosophy' spectrum you mentioned, i would characterize myself as a mixture of both extremes. :) i tend to alternate bursts of avid and scattered 'panstering' with bursts of structured 'plotter' outlining/assembly/integration of the panstered materials. :|

 

- anko

Hi, Anko:

Welcome to the forums. When I first began using Storyist, I also experimented with the demo versions of Scrivener, StoryMill, and Writers' Cafe. I liked individual features of each of the other programs, but on the whole, I have found Storyist the best suited to organizing and writing novels and screenplays, especially now, with version 2. The program has many levels, so your experience with it can be as "deep" as you want it to be. I began in a very basic way: I figured out the character and settings sheets and how to write in the manuscript right away, and for about six months that was my main interaction with the program.

 

That was three-plus years ago, and I have since learned to use the plot points, add a timeline, outline, develop a novel first as a screenplay (to work out kinks in the plotting and characterization, mostly) and then adapt it to a novel format, create templates, import and export files (including, now, to ePub for reading/critiquing on my iPad—I haven't printed the novel in months!), and much more. I would also note that I have learned quite a bit about writing itself through Storyist and through the forums (we have, I'm told, one of the friendliest, most supportive forums around). In the beginning, I didn't even know what a character development point was, although I had heard of the character arc.

 

I love the flexibility of Storyist, the ability to link one thing to another, the in-project search function, the customizable sheets, the way that I can shift entire chapters and sections by dragging and dropping them, the character images ... I could go on, but you get the idea.

 

On a more fundamental level, I personally just never "got" Scrivener—lots of people seem to like it, but it didn't appeal to me. StoryMill and Writers' Cafe I thought were interesting but limited; although I did like the multiple overlapping timelines in StoryMill, I didn't think that feature compensated for the lack of section and other types of sheets. I don't want to say too much about any of these programs, because they have presumably changed in three years, and I don't know what their current capabilities are. But if nothing else, Storyist's ability to export to Word and RTF makes exchanging files with other writers, editors, and—we all hope!—agents much easier.

 

On the philosophy question, I am an unregenerate Pantser who is slowly, slowly waking up to the advantages of plotting. ;) And, perhaps because I am not all that organized in terms of my fiction—in contrast, strangely, to the rest of my life—I tend to use the sheets as memory joggers. What does that place smell like? What is that character's patronymic? If there is no conflict in this scene, why does it exist? And so on.

Hope that helps.

Marguerite

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[...]

I would also note that I have learned quite a bit about writing itself through Storyist and through the forums (we have, I'm told, one of the friendliest, most supportive forums around).

Marguerite

 

thanks for the reply Marguerite!

 

i quoted the forums part because so far it's certainly my experience, and that's like a breath of fresh air.

 

i guess i've made my inclination toward storyist even 'steeper' now and i'm tinkering with the trial version as i speak/type and attempting to import and organize the bunch of disorganized materials comprising my current project.

 

i think i'll move on to asking a couple of more specific questions about using storyist now.

 

nice to meet you, and Thoth,

anko.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Welcome to the forums!

I originally started off with Scrivener and did really enjoy it, but I came to Storyist because if offered a much more novel focused interface and gave me organizational structure and tools like prebuilt Scene sheets and Character sheets. In Scrivener I would have had to make up my own sheets and copy paste them from a blank copy and make all my own collections etc. I decided to go with Storyist because it already offered those tools and they were linked in with all sorts of other things. It really pulled me in because it offered so many already working functions and templates that I would have to spend the time trying to build myself in Scrivener.

 

Now, I wouldn't want to use Storyist for research papers as Thoth said and my honest opinion is that Storyist's research capabilities are just a bit lacking. Unlike some members here I don't like just having a link to a webpage in a research folder. I like to actually pull the webpage into my research because a lot of tiny and obscure webpages tend to disappear over the years, so having a snap shot of their content is helpful and makes for really quick in program referencing. This is one of two advantages Scrivener has over Storyist. Scrivener can add and display PDFs and you can drag and drop a webpage right into it. Storyist can't do either, so I currently can't get a webpage or any PDF research into my Storyist files. Scrivener can also "focus" on just a single chapter of your manuscript, though that's not as big a deal. I know Steve has both of those features on his radar though, so I'm hopeful they will eventually be added to a version of Storyist. I think I probably have made Steve's ear's (or would it be eyes?) bleed because I request those features so much! Haha.

 

Despite those two things I think Storyist has so much more to offer than Scrivener when it comes to novels and stories etc. There's so many features and functions to it that you can really sink your teeth into if you want, yet if you just want to write and not get too deep for the time being you can do that too. Storyist also comes with the forums and a wonderful developer who actually responds to you. That was a big part of my decision to come to and stay with Storyist and I haven't regretted the decision.

 

Hope to see you around!

- Jools

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  • 3 months later...

Julia, why don't you command-A a webpage (select all & copy) or other source and paste it into a notebook page? I tend to do that, then reduce the fontsize with another command-A. My Storyist notebook is fat with background pieces I don't want to have to load or find again in the world of fugitive webpages.

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Hi

That works okay for anything plain text without pictures or tables, but if you have wide pictures or tables and want to use page mode vs normal it gets pretty messy:

 

th_Screenshot2010-10-31at111122AM.png

 

th_Screenshot2010-10-31at111358AM.png

 

There's plenty other times where that wouldn't work very well either. It's just another work around, which is great, but it's not PDF support. Copy paste won't work at all for PDFs I already have, in which you can't copy paste. It's also a lot more trouble than plopping a webpage straight in from the browser or adding a PDF. I love Storyist, it's great and has so many points that Scrivener doesn't, but PDF and webpage support is the one point that Scrivener's been hanging onto. I have both and use them for different things. I wouldn't trade Storyist for anything though, it's by far my favorite, even without PDF support. <_<

 

I appreciate the thought though and I might use it for some things. It did work pretty well for plain text and works okay for those other things if I remember to put it in normal mode. :lol:

Thanks!

- Jules

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  • 2 months later...

 

Despite those two things I think Storyist has so much more to offer than Scrivener when it comes to novels and stories etc. There's so many features and functions to it that you can really sink your teeth into if you want, yet if you just want to write and not get too deep for the time being you can do that too. Storyist also comes with the forums and a wonderful developer who actually responds to you. That was a big part of my decision to come to and stay with Storyist and I haven't regretted the decision.

- Jools

 

Jools,

I noticed you made the hall of fame for haggles on the Jers Novel Writer website - but you didn't mention that software here as part of your trial comparisons - so I ask (as I still evaluate multiple versions of different writing software) would you say that you have found Storyist to be better or comparative to Jers Novel Writer? If you had to pick between the two, which would you choose and why? I need something good and can only afford one so i would love to have your opinion since I noticed you did try Jers.

 

On another note, your comparisons for Scrivener are dead on, imho, it is great for writing papers and such, but just not what I see myself using for writing my novels. I also tried WriteRoom and didn't like it at all.

 

Anyways, looking forward to hearing your opinion on the two - thanks in advance.

~Amy

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Hi Amy!

I had so much fun with that haggle. The chance to do that was one of the reasons I bought the software. In all honesty, I really haven't used JNW at all. I got it when I was jumping around between different software trying to figure out what I wanted to use and while I like it, in the end it didn't provide me with enough of what I wanted. I also have WriteRoom and don't like it. I don't like "full screen no distractions" type things, but apparently many people do. I also have Pages, Word, and Mariner Write, but they're ... word processors and not in the same league as Storyist, Scrivener, or JNW. I also recently tried a trial of Storymill and Writer's Cafe, but neither of those lasted more than 5 minutes.

 

So let's see, JNW. It is a simple program, which if that's what you like is great. The one thing I absolutely adore about JNW is the margin notes. Sure, other programs have comments and annotations, but Jer's margin notes in my opinion are pretty awesome since you can actually see them in a margin as you read along your work without having to click on an icon of a comment, etc. etc. AND if you do click on them, they underline the text they have been applied to, which is something that has been requested for Storyist's comments. The database is nice, but in comparison to Storyist's collections and story sheets it seems a bit lacking. If WriteRoom is on one side of the spectrum with Storyist on the other, Jer's sits in the middle. If you like the simplisticness of WR, but want more features than just typing on a screen, yet you don't want as many features as Storyist, I'd recommend Jer's. One thing I do notice that seems glaring lacking is Jer's ability to contain images and research. There doesn't really seem to be a way to add any of those things into your file (unless I'm missing it, but it isn't mentioned in the tutorial file). It's a lot like if you were writing on a legal pad and scribbling in the margin, with the added benefits of an outline that allows you to jump around and do things like that and a database which allows you to keep a list of characters and places etc. etc.

 

So how does that compare to Storyist? Well, for me it's a bit hard to compare directly like I can with Scrivener, because Jer's doesn't have anywhere near the same depth of features to compare to. If I were to compare directly for writing a novel in which you want really rich organizational and research capabilities, Storyist blows Jer's out of the water. The one time I would consider using Jer's right now is if I were going to write a simple short story when I want a little more than Word offers, but don't want to get distracted by filling in all the sheets and options in Storyist.

 

Hopefully that answers your question!

- Jools

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So let's see, JNW. It is a simple program, which if that's what you like is great. The one thing I absolutely adore about JNW is the margin notes.

I do like the margin notes - that is one thing I love about JNW as well.

 

 

So how does that compare to Storyist? Well, for me it's a bit hard to compare directly like I can with Scrivener, because Jer's doesn't have anywhere near the same depth of features to compare to. If I were to compare directly for writing a novel in which you want really rich organizational and research capabilities, Storyist blows Jer's out of the water. The one time I would consider using Jer's right now is if I were going to write a simple short story when I want a little more than Word offers, but don't want to get distracted by filling in all the sheets and options in Storyist.

 

Hopefully that answers your question!

 

yes, that totally answered my question. In the few days that I have been using Storyist - I have found that I absolutely love it. Unlike the few other programs I have tried, it is very organized to my way of thinking which is a disorganized mess.lol. It helps me get my thoughts in check without losing my place. Which is a miracle in itself.

You said you had Pages, I have that too - but like you said, it is just a word processor and Storyist offers so much more. (I also have Office on my pc, but prefer to use my Mac for all things creative)

 

Back to Storyist, I still have some learning to do to get the full use of the software, but so far, I am trucking right along. If only my photography was so easy. LOL.

 

Well, thanks again for the insight and I greatly appreciate your prompt response! Happy Writing (and other creative outlets that you utilize). :)

~Amy

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  • 2 months later...

Hi,

I brought Storyist after an trialing Scrivener, StoryMill and Writer's Cafe.

 

The decision eventually boiled down to stability. After using Storyist with 8 hours on it daily, it did not crash, barf, it did not corrupt the articles I was writing.

 

Your mileage will vary, good luck with your decision.

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Hi,

I brought Storyist after an trialing Scrivener, StoryMill and Writer's Cafe.

The decision eventually boiled down to stability. After using Storyist with 8 hours on it daily, it did not crash, barf, it did not corrupt the articles I was writing.

Hi Sally. Welcome to the Forums.

You put your finger on one thing that most of us Storyist users take for granted: stability. No one wants to buy a program that crashes and barfs all over the place (except for MS Word users). We know that no release of anything is ever perfect, but Steve does a pretty thorough job of squashing those bugs before they crawl under your refrigerator. If only every developer were as conscientious the world would be a better place.

- Thoth

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Does anyone want to buy MS Word? Most of us have it thrust down our throats, whether we like it or not.

 

Resistance is futile. The Borg are everywhere. And Bill Gates is laughing all the way to the bank, having created the program that everyone loves to hate. Did I miss any clichés? :lol:

 

But indeed, Storyist is a great program, for all the reasons Sally and Thoth list. And welcome to the forums, Sally. Looks like we will soon be greeting you in the iPad beta testers area.

Best,

M

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