Scenes and Plot Point usage?

[randomjo]

I am somewhat confused about how Scenes versus Plot Points should be used in Storyist. In the help file there is no explanation of the concept. Could anyone please give a few hints about what the difference and the intended use are? Thank you!

[Steve E]

I am somewhat confused about how Scenes versus Plot Points should be used in Storyist. In the help file there is no explanation of the concept. Could anyone please give a few hints about what the difference and the intended use are? Thank you!

Hi randomjo.

 

If you're talking about the Plot Points portion of the Scene sheet it's simple: each scene in your screenplay may contain zero or more plot points. Plot points are the main things that happen in a single scene that move the story along. Storyist allows you to write them down in the Scene data sheets and link each of them to a Plot Point sheet you created while developing the plot of your screenplay.

 

This brings up the topic of Scene sheets versus Plot sheets (the Guide often refers to the Plot sheets, which describe plot points, as "Plot Points"). Scene sheets (and Section sheets for novels) contain information about specific Scenes. For many top-down writers (or "Pantsers", like myself) this is usually sufficient. But Storyist recognizes that this is not how writing is taught in school. People are taught to fully develop a plot before they start writing their story (these are "Plotters"). So Storyist provides a collection of data sheets for plot development that can be independent of Scene data sheets. In theory, a single Plot data sheet can correspond to one or more scenes. Additionally, a single scene can encompass zero or more events described in the Plot sheets. (Why do I include zero? The Pantser in me knows that people are often inspired to throw in something that they had never thought of while developing the plot. Of course you can always modify the plot sheets afterwards.)

 

I hope this helps.

-Thoth

[randomjo]

OK, thanks, that made it clearer to me.

 

Hi randomjo.

 

Scene sheets, like Section sheets contain information about specific Scenes and Sections. For many top-down writers (or "Pantsers", like myself) this is usually sufficient. But Storyist recognizes that this is not how writing is taught in school. People are taught to fully develop a plot before they start writing their story (these are "Plotters"). So Storyist provides a collection of data sheets for plot development that can be independent of Scene and Section data sheets. In theory, a single Plot data sheet can correspond to one or more scenes (or sections). Additionally, a single scene or section can encompass zero or more Plot sheets. (Why do I include zero? The Pantser in me knows that people are often inspired to throw in something that they had never thought of while developing the plot. Of course you can always modify the plot afterwards.)

 

I hope that helps.

-Thoth

[marguerite]

OK, thanks, that made it clearer to me.

Even for Pantsers, among whom I count myself, the Plot Points come in handy when I am just trying to figure out the rough outlines of how the story needs to go over the next few chapters. I set up a bunch of them, fill in the summary sections (often not more than that), and then display them in outline or index card mode so I can see the main line of the story. For example, right now I'm working on the ending of my novel. I sketched it out in Plot Points within a separate group and then used it to build the action and dialogue (being a Pantser, I naturally started changing the story as soon as I began writing, but I still had the general arc in my head).

 

I also use Plot Points to chart the course of the Hero's Journey or some other mythic structure (or subplots—say, the romantic subplot). I have a set of 12 plot points for the Hero's Journey, for example, and once the story is generally worked out, I go through the twelve and hook them to the chapters where that development occurs. That way, I know I didn't miss anything major. (I use multiple structures in each novel to keep the plot from becoming too pat.)

 

Scene/Section Sheets are great for tracking Point of View and making sure that there actually is a conflict in each scene (that each scene serves a purpose). They are more general than Plot Points, because they can track multiple plots and subplots at one time over the arc of the story. They also let you add the extremely useful character development points, which show you how your protagonists change from chapter to chapter.

Best,

Marguerite

[randomjo]

That makes much sense

 

I would like to associate several scenes with 1 plot point.

But I just cannot get this to work. Yesterday I downloaded the updated plot point .html file, but it seems I only can create new plot points from the scene sheet (but actually I create the plot point first, then create the related scenes) and from the plot point sheet I can only assign 1 scene. I am probably missing something or maybe there is still a problem with that .html?

 

Even for Pantsers, among whom I count myself, the Plot Points come in handy when I am just trying to figure out the rough outlines of how the story needs to go over the next few chapters. I set up a bunch of them, fill in the summary sections (often not more than that), and then display them in outline or index card mode so I can see the main line of the story. For example, right now I'm working on the ending of my novel. I sketched it out in Plot Points within a separate group and then used it to build the action and dialogue (being a Pantser, I naturally started changing the story as soon as I began writing, but I still had the general arc in my head).

 

I also use Plot Points to chart the course of the Hero's Journey or some other mythic structure (or subplots—say, the romantic subplot). I have a set of 12 plot points for the Hero's Journey, for example, and once the story is generally worked out, I go through the twelve and hook them to the chapters where that development occurs. That way, I know I didn't miss anything major. (I use multiple structures in each novel to keep the plot from becoming too pat.)

 

Scene/Section Sheets are great for tracking Point of View and making sure that there actually is a conflict in each scene (that each scene serves a purpose). They are more general than Plot Points, because they can track multiple plots and subplots at one time over the arc of the story. They also let you add the extremely useful character development points, which show you how your protagonists change from chapter to chapter.

Best,

Marguerite

[marguerite]

The trick is that you can't link multiple sections to one plot point in the area that says Section Sheet (you can link multiple plot points to one section sheet).

 

To get additional section sheets within one plot point, go down to the Notes area, choose Edit > Insert Link (or Command-L), and make sure that the default "Story Element" is selected. You can then link to the section sheet you want.

 

So your Notes area of the plot point would say something like:

 

Additional sections: Link 1, Link 2. (Where Link 1 is the first additional section, Link 2 the second additional section, and so on. I would put the most important link under Section Sheet).

 

I just tried this and it works. It creates live links to the additional section sheets. See the attached screen shot for the example.

best,

M

[randomjo]

Thanks a lot.

 

The trick is that you can't link multiple sections to one plot point in the area that says Section Sheet (you can link multiple plot points to one section sheet).

 

To get additional section sheets within one plot point, go down to the Notes area, choose Edit > Insert Link (or Command-L), and make sure that the default "Story Element" is selected. You can then link to the section sheet you want.

 

So your Notes area of the plot point would say something like:

 

Additional sections: Link 1, Link 2. (Where Link 1 is the first additional section, Link 2 the second additional section, and so on. I would put the most important link under Section Sheet).

 

I just tried this and it works. It creates live links to the additional section sheets.

best,

M

[marguerite]

Thanks for asking. I've actually always wanted to do that (link one plot point to multiple section sheets) and only realized how to make it work while answering your post!

 

I added the screen shot while you were replying, I think. It makes the example clearer.

Best,

M

[orrenm]

Thanks for asking. I've actually always wanted to do that (link one plot point to multiple section sheets) and only realized how to make it work while answering your post!

 

I didn't know how to do that either—thanks!

 

Orren

[Steve E]

... And after all the time we spent posting about dragging links to note areas...

[marguerite]

... And after all the time we spent posting about dragging links to note areas...

I thought those were links to notes. That is, if you wanted to link something in the Notes area of a sheet to a note in the notebook, you could either type the [[wiki link]] syntax or just drag the note from the Project View into the Notes area: For more on this, see [[Note Name]].

 

Some of us (moi!) are really literal minded. So if you meant the same drag-and-drop worked for Section Sheets, that did not compute.

 

Although it did spark my realization that I could link one sheet to another through the Notes area, so I guess my subconscious must have done something with the information.

M

[Steve E]

...Although it did spark my realization that I could link one sheet to another through the Notes area, so I guess my subconscious must have done something with the information.

When it comes to scene and plot point usage my subconscious is often smarter than I am.

Does that make any sense?

- Thoth.

[marguerite]

That is, if you wanted to link something in the Notes area of a sheet to a note in the notebook, you could either type the [[wiki link]] syntax or just drag the note from the Project View into the Notes area: For more on this, see [[Note Name]].

By the way, I don't actually find this to be true. When I drag the name of a section sheet, plot point, or note into the notes area of another sheet, nothing happens. Same when I drag selected text. Am I missing something?

 

The [[wiki links]] syntax, in contrast, works fine and is faster (although it works only for notes).

Best,

M

[Steve E]

When I drag the name of a section sheet, plot point, or note into the notes area of another sheet, nothing happens. Same when I drag selected text. Am I missing something?

No. I don't think so. I just tried it and the Note name snapped back to the Project View. I'm sure drag & drop used to work.

Could my memory be that bad or is Steve having a little fun with us?

-Thoth

[marguerite]

No. I don't think so. I just tried it and the Note name snapped back to the Project View. I'm sure drag & drop used to work.

Could my memory be that bad or is Steve having a little fun with us?

-Thoth

OK. Glad it's not me. My characters are giving me enough grief this weekend. I don't need gremlins in my file, too!

 

Thanks for verifying. At least we won't inadvertently mislead people with obsolete information.

 

Off to whack a few characters into submission.

Cheers,

M

[Steve E]

Off to whack a few characters into submission.

Cheers,

M

Have the Golden Lynx skewer a couple for me.

I'm in a mood.

-T