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Steve E

Star Trek & Greek Gods

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Hi Whirly.

I think I'll try something different.

 

Whirlybird in Red. Thoth in Blue.

 

Thoth-Very interesting. Bomb Queen really sounds interesting and a little maniacal.

Yes. Very maniacal. It's her thing. She's a villain and makes no bones about it.

Do you think she'll learn her lesson when she wakes up and how much of the world has rebuilt itself since her Sleeping Beauty fate?.

Nope. No lesson will be learned since she won that last fight. As for the rebuild? Who knows?

Also, why is Bomb Queen so special to you? I looked her up on comic vine.com and this is a small exempt[sic]. "She revels in death, destruction and sexual perversion which she encourages on her frequent TV appearances."

I think you just answered your own question. — She's different. She stands apart from heros because she isn't one. And she stands apart from villians because, unlike all other feature villians, she isn't looking for redemption. She is what she is.

And she has a cat!

If it makes you feel any better, her cat isn't really a cat but a demon who is trying to steal her magic for himself.

Orren- How do you feel about Bomb Queen and what's your favorite?

I suspect that Orren doesn't want to play anymore. I could be wrong. But how do you, Whirly, feel about Bomb Queen from what you know? And who is your favorite character? Why? And what mythology is it close to? Come on, Whirlybird, you can't hide behind your moderator's podium.

 

M?

-Thoth

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Hi Thoth,

 

It's interesting with the red and blue but I still like the quote thing better. Oh and what is the green M thing mean?

 

I can understand, in part, why you like Bomb Queen. She's nobody's stooge, makes her own rules, and doesn't apologize for her behavior. I didn't realize other feature villains were looking for redemption. (Not really sure what a feature villain is). I thought part of her attraction, for a guy, would be the way she looks and what she does or doesn't wear.

 

As for me, I like that she is her own person. She's definitely a force to be reckoned with. I'm sure she doesn't apologize for being scantily clad (sine she revels in sexual perversion) but I don't know how practical it would be trying to move around in any of her outfits.

 

I just brought up the cat because we mention Isis and another cat whose name escapes me at the moment. Bomb Queen really has no friends, does she?

 

I was asking you and Orren since you really know such a wide variety of comic characters. I know of only the most popular ones. I like Wolverine and Superman probably the best. I think I am very influenced by what actor played them, as as Hugh Jackman. The comic book version of Superman is much better than the actors who played him. Christopher Reed was fine but a little wimpy for my tastes and so is the actor who plays Spiderman. What little I know of him, I like the darker version of Superman. As to the mythology part, I have no clue. Maybe Thor because both my parents are Norwegian.

 

-W (Was I standing behind a moderator's podium?)

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Oh and what is the green M thing mean?

-W (Was I standing behind a moderator's podium?)

He was inviting me to join the conversation. Folks get tired of typing "Marguerite" all the time, so most of the regulars call me M or Lady M. ;)

 

Alas, I don't read comics, so I have nothing to contribute.

I do like Catwoman, though.

M

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Hi M,

 

Ah, that makes sense.

 

Thanks for the suggestion shortening your name. I kept on having to check my spelling so as not to switch the 'e' and 'u'.

 

I don't read comics either (reading tons of Archie magazines at my cousins house in the 70's doesn't count) so I only know what I've seen on TV and in the movies. A lot of my perception is based on the actor(s) playing the different roles. That's why I thought the too experts could give us their opinions. I can't argue with Catwoman.

 

-W

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... Oh and what is the green M thing mean?

"M" is short for "Marguerite", as Lady M has explained above.

 

I can understand, in part, why you like Bomb Queen. She's nobody's stooge, makes her own rules, and doesn't apologize for her behavior. I didn't realize other feature villains were looking for redemption. (Not really sure what a feature villain is).

A "feature villain" is a villain with his own comic. Except they're all ex-villains looking for redemption. An interesting alternative is The Plutonian in the graphic novel Irredeemable. He was a superhero almost identical to Superman in powers. He even saved the world many times. Then one day his helping turns out to be a disaster and he snaps. He decides he can't be the perfect superhero so he'd rather be a supervillain.

 

I thought part of her attraction, for a guy, would be the way she looks and what she does or doesn't wear.

Er...um...yeah, that's a possibility. :rolleyes:

 

...but I don't know how practical it would be trying to move around in any of her outfits.

And yet she manages quite nicely. Maybe it's a special power only super-powered women have.

 

...Bomb Queen really has no friends, does she?

No friends, true. Just just male and female lovers (mostly involuntary) and allies. For example, her closest allies include her cat, Ashe, who is a demon who is after her powers, and Madame Wong, a 70-something Asian cannibal pedophile who owns a restaurant in New Port City and likes to be near the power. But to be fair, she really dislikes people—she even nuked her own city (New Port City) in the last book.

 

I was asking you and Orren since you really know such a wide variety of comic characters. I know of only the most popular ones. I like Wolverine and Superman probably the best. I think I am very influenced by what actor played them, as as Hugh Jackman. The comic book version of Superman is much better than the actors who played him. Christopher Reed was fine but a little wimpy for my tastes and so is the actor who plays Spiderman. What little I know of him, ...

It has been my experience that the book (with or without pictures) is always better than the movie. Look what they did to Watchmen! Do yourself a big favor, pick up the graphic novel of Watchmen, and then see the movie. Night and day!

 

I like the darker version of Superman. As to the mythology part, I have no clue.

Superman overlaps many mythological traditions of the selfless hero. Some people see him as a metaphor for the Nietzschean Übermensch. I strongly disagree. I suspect it's just the similarity of names that makes people think that. ("Übermensch" is German for "Super Man".) I think Joe Shuster (born in Toronto, Ontario, Canada) and Jerry Siegel (born in Cleveland, Ohio) explained their creation pretty well as the ultimate inner immigrant experience. (A Norwegian might empathize.)

 

(Was I standing behind a moderator's podium?)

Metaphorically speaking.

 

I don't read comics either (reading tons of Archie magazines at my cousins house in the 70's doesn't count) so I only know what I've seen on TV and in the movies....

Of course Archie comics count. Sure they're girly, but hey, you enjoyed them, right?

You can again.

-T

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He was inviting me to join the conversation. Folks get tired of typing "Marguerite" all the time, so most of the regulars call me M or Lady M. ;)

I also sometimes sign my name "-T" because "Thoth" is so hard to pronounce properly. (People on the Forum get it wrong all the time.)

 

Alas, I don't read comics, so I have nothing to contribute.

Lady M, you always have something to contribute. But you're a reader, so why don't you read comics? (You're not prejudiced are you?) Graphic novels contain some of the best current writing available. I know, I read a lot! But don't read single issues. Read entire story arcs. You want something hefty: nothing under 100 pages. At 400 pages it gets meaty.

 

I do like Catwoman, though.

Of course you like Catwoman. What's not to like? Except she blows my theory out of the water. She is/was a feature villain—had her own book and everything—yet she isn't looking for redemption. She is a thief and likes being a thief. She just happens to do nice things for people sometimes. Bomb Queen never does anything nice. She even blows people's parts off sometimes just to help them remember her; parts including the genitals of sloppy lovers, the legs of superheros who dare enter her city, even President Obama's bill-signing arm. She truly has no boundaries.

 

-T

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I also sometimes sign my name "-T" because "Thoth" is so hard to pronounce properly. (People on the Forum get it wrong all the time.)

:lol:

 

Of course you like Catwoman. What's not to like? Except she blows my theory out of the water. She is/was a feature villain—had her own book and everything—yet she isn't looking for redemption. She is a thief and likes being a thief. She just happens to do nice things for people sometimes.

That's the trouble with theories. You just get one nicely set up, and some outlier comes along and blows it out of the water. :P

 

Lady M, you always have something to contribute. But you're a reader, so why don't you read comics? (You're not prejudiced are you?) Graphic novels contain some of the best current writing available. I know, I read a lot! But don't read single issues. Read entire story arcs. You want something hefty: nothing under 100 pages. At 400 pages it gets meaty.

Thanks for the kind words. No, I'm not prejudiced. Would someone who devoured Barbara Cartland novels in college dare say bad things about graphic novels? I'm sure they are literary masterpieces by comparison. I've just never gotten into them, although Son of Sir Percy reads them all the time.

 

Batman seems interesting to me; he has a dark side. Wolverine, too, and his mentor as played by Patrick Stewart (anyone played by Patrick Stewart, in fact). Superman is too much of a Boy Scout, although perhaps I'm missing his complexity. The rest, I just haven't kept up on.

 

So much literature, so little time. ;)

M

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That's the trouble with theories. You just get one nicely set up, and some outlier comes along and blows it out of the water. :P

I'm going to fall back on that old chestnut: It's the exceptions that prove the rule. Of course we both know that they do no such thing. But we'll keep that our little secret. (Dang outliers! ***shaking fist menacingly***)

 

...Would someone who devoured Barbara Cartland novels in college dare say bad things about graphic novels? I'm sure they are literary masterpieces by comparison. I've just never gotten into them, although Son of Sir Percy reads them all the time.

:lol: Point taken.

Maybe you could borrow some items from SoSP's collection, if he'll trust you with them.

 

Batman seems interesting to me; he has a dark side.

It seems that he gets darker and darker every decade or so. Early on, his alter ego was quite sunny. The Justice League was started by Batman and funded (including a space station) by the Wayne fortune. Rumors are that Wayne is going to publicly announce that he's not only funding Batman but he's setting up a Batman franchise for all the major cities of the world. (Kind of like an Earthbound Green Lantern Society.) It's part of the DC reboot.

 

Wolverine, too, and his mentor as played by Patrick Stewart (anyone played by Patrick Stewart, in fact).

There are rumors that Patrick Stewart may get to play Onslaught, a man created from the consciousness of Professor Charles Xavier, in a future X-Men movie. You'll recall that in the last X-Men movie he was in he got himself disintegrated by Phoenix (with a smile on his face). At least that will get Patrick out of that chair.

 

Superman is too much of a Boy Scout, although perhaps I'm missing his complexity. The rest, I just haven't kept up on.

I have read philosophical treatises attempting to deconstruct Superman's psyche. You'd think they'd be more interesting. I know I did. But what Superman is like deep down depends a great deal on which era of Superman you're talking about. Remember, this guy was created (first published) in 1938. He's in good shape for a septuagenarian. But his dialogue and actions were influenced by the cultures he has lived through. These days he's talking about renouncing his American citizenship and becoming a citizen of the world. As for Superman being too much of a Boy Scout, that's what Lex Luthor calls him: the big blue Boy Scout. Oh, and on one alternate-reality Earth, it's US President Luthor.

 

So much literature, so little time. ;)

True. So painfully true.

-T

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Thoth and Orren,

 

Which are your favorite comic book characters and what are their mythological ties?

 

Sorry for the late reply! I've not been here for a while.

 

That's a tough one. I like so many characters!

 

I suppose I always have a weak spot for Superman, as his origin story is, in addition to harkening to the Moses story, the thinly veiled history of early 20th century Jewish immigrants. To whit: a father and mother from the Old World, realizing there is no future their for their child, send their son Kal-El (Hebrew for "All that is God") to the New World, where he assimilates, takes a new identity, and devotes his resources and abilities to making his adopted home the best, fairest, most noble place it can be. And his main vulnerability is the Old World (kryponite) coming to the New World to haunt him. Superman wasn't a Jewish superhero (the way that Ben Grimm/The Thing, Kitty Pryde, and Batwoman openly identify as Jews) but his story was a very familiar one, written by two sons of immigrants.

 

I have a deep love for the Character of Wonder Woman, but unfortunately through the years she has been given a lot of bad stories. The reason she keeps being "rebooted" every few years is that while she's such a dynamic character, writers don't often know what to do with a Greek Demi-god in modern society, so her stories are often weak and not entertaining. Actually, the current New 52 relaunch has what is shaping up to be one of the most interesting Wonder Woman arcs in years! The writer, Brian Azzarello, calls it a "horror story" which is a bit of an exaggeration but it's certainly more of a dark bloody mystery that WW either saving childers from burning buildings or running around on Olympus.

 

I love the character of Batwoman, the modern Kathy Kane created by Grant Morrison and Greg Rucka and JH Williams. She is not related to Batman, although it is a meeting with him that gives her the inspiration to fight crime. She is a Jewish lesbian whose mother and sister are killed by terrorists. She follows her father's footsteps into West Point, but is kicked out when she refuses to deny her lesbianism. Aimless and desperate for a "mission," she runs across Batman and decides that's her ticket, she'll fight crime and adopt a cowl as her uniform. And her colonel father helps her out.

 

I'm a big fan of Hellboy, the son of a demon from another dimension who is brought to earth to bring about the end of days, but ends up being raised by a kindly professor and joining a group of demon hunters called the BPRD. The "mythology" is very Lovecraftian, mixing modern historical figures like Rasputin with Cthulu's Old Ones.

 

I have named enough, but I should also mention Hawkgirl is one of my favorites too. The Thanagarian version. I think in general I'm more drawn to female characters; I once read a comic writer say that male superhero stories are too often just about the powers, while the female superhero stories are more often about personality. I'm not 100% sure that's true, but I do think sometimes the girls do have more personality than the boys who solve problems with their powers or utility belt.

 

Sorry for writing so much!

 

Orren

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Wayne is going to publicly announce that he's not only funding Batman but he's setting up a Batman franchise for all the major cities of the world. (Kind of like an Earthbound Green Lantern Society.) It's part of the DC reboot.

 

That started over a year ago, before the reboot. Bruce Wayne "died," and Dick Grayson (The first Robin, then Nightwing) became Batman. Then Bruce Returned, and in a series called "Batman, inc." set up the Batman-per-city" deal. I think that series began in 2010. In the reboot, there is a book called Batwing, which is about a Batman in Africa.

 

I have read philosophical treatises attempting to deconstruct Superman's psyche. You'd think they'd be more interesting. I know I did. But what Superman is like deep down depends a great deal on which era of Superman you're talking about. Remember, this guy was created (first published) in 1938. He's in good shape for a septuagenarian. But his dialogue and actions were influenced by the cultures he has lived through. These days he's talking about renouncing his American citizenship and becoming a citizen of the world. As for Superman being too much of a Boy Scout, that's what Lex Luthor calls him: the big blue Boy Scout. Oh, and on one alternate-reality Earth, it's US President Luthor.

 

The original 1939 Superman was not a boy scout! In his first appearance, he rips the doors off the governors mansion and drops a criminal from a great height to scare him into talking! He is a true socialist; he believes in justice and equality and defending the people from ANY corruption and threat, even if that threat is coming from the government itself. Only in the 1950s after the Red Scare did the champion of the common man become a boy scout. And the relaunch brought him back to his roots, fighting for the defenseless even if that means taking on the power structure. And indeed, the government does not like him one bit, even if the people adore him and understand him.

 

To understand Superman, you need to imagine a character with an optimism that can't be quelled. Think about it; his entire SPECIES has been destroyed (except for the odd outlier) and he can still smile. Most of us would collapse in a heap!

 

Orren

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I suppose I always have a weak spot for Superman, as his origin story is, in addition to harkening to the Moses story, the thinly veiled history of early 20th century Jewish immigrants. To whit: a father and mother from the Old World, realizing there is no future their for their child, send their son Kal-El (Hebrew for "All that is God") to the New World, where he assimilates, takes a new identity, and devotes his resources and abilities to making his adopted home the best, fairest, most noble place it can be. And his main vulnerability is the Old World (kryponite) coming to the New World to haunt him. Superman wasn't a Jewish superhero (the way that Ben Grimm/The Thing, Kitty Pryde, and Batwoman openly identify as Jews) but his story was a very familiar one, written by two sons of immigrants.

I like your Superman analysis (and your other character analyses as well). Also, I thought "Kal-El" resembled the pronunciation for "Voice Of God" in Hebrew ("kal" meaning "voice" and the suffix "el" meaning "of god").

 

Sorry for writing so much!

Please don't be.

-T

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That started over a year ago, before the reboot. Bruce Wayne "died," and Dick Grayson (The first Robin, then Nightwing) became Batman. Then Bruce Returned, and in a series called "Batman, inc." set up the Batman-per-city" deal. I think that series began in 2010. In the reboot, there is a book called Batwing, which is about a Batman in Africa.

Thanks for the update. I haven't picked up a "Batman" in over a year.

 

The original 1939 Superman was not a boy scout! In his first appearance, he rips the doors off the governors mansion and drops a criminal from a great height to scare him into talking! He is a true socialist; he believes in justice and equality and defending the people from ANY corruption and threat, even if that threat is coming from the government itself. Only in the 1950s after the Red Scare did the champion of the common man become a boy scout. And the relaunch brought him back to his roots, fighting for the defenseless even if that means taking on the power structure. And indeed, the government does not like him one bit, even if the people adore him and understand him.

As I said, "his dialogue and actions were influenced by the cultures he has lived through." I never said he began as a Boy Scout. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

To understand Superman, you need to imagine a character with an optimism that can't be quelled. Think about it; his entire SPECIES has been destroyed (except for the odd outlier) and he can still smile. Most of us would collapse in a heap!

Isn't there a whole city of tiny Kryponians breeding in a bottle somewhere?

But more to the point, his strength of character and incorruptibility make him, to me at least, less human and more of an ideal form. More mythological. Personally, I'd like to see more character flaws in the guy. You'd think he would have crack ages ago (like the Plutonian). But is it really his "otherness" that gives him such strength of character or is it his Earthian upbringing? We've seen plenty of Kryptonian bad guys. Something to think about.

 

Ma & Pa Kent are Da Bomb.

-Thoth

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Thanks for the update. I haven't picked up a "Batman" in over a year.

 

And in my personal opinion, you did yourself a favor. ;) I know that many longtime Batman readers loved the whole Batman continuity convolution, but I thought it was just too much. Bruce Wayne = Batman = Dead = Batman, Inc.? Dick Grayson = Robin = Nightwing = Batman = Nightwing again? Tim Drake = Robin = Red Robin? Jason Todd = Robin = Dead = Red Hood (villain) = Red Hood (hero)? No thanks.

 

And unfortunately, while some characters got their continuity removed/changed/simplified, the Batman saga stayed the same. I guess Batman sells so well they didn't dare futz with it. But that said, starting with Batman #1 in September, one of the best comic writers working today, Scott Snyder, has started an arc that does what a good "#1" does; it let's you jump in without any previous knowledge and tells you what you need to know as the story progresses. It's a very good story and I'm enjoying it a lot.

 

BTW Scott Snyder has an excellent non-superhero Vertigo horror series called American Vampire, in which Stephen King co-wrote the first 5 issues. It's on #19 now, and the first 11 issues are collected in two hardcover volumes. Really excellent stuff, he creates entire new mythologies for vampires, many different strains and communities, so well done. And the art is excellent, too!

 

Isn't there a whole city of tiny Kryponians breeding in a bottle somewhere?

 

There is! Superman, at least in old continuity, kept the "Bottle City of Kandor," a city of Kryptonians shrunk by some villain, in his Fortress of Solitude, always looking for a way to restore the city. In one arc, he did, he rebuilt "New Krypron," and it ended up destroyed somehow (not sure how, never read it). In Grant Morrison's amazing classic run "All-Star Superman" Superman can never figure out how to make them larger, but he figures out how to cure cancer--and the mini-Kryptonians become the healers.

 

But more to the point, his strength of character and incorruptibility make him, to me at least, less human and more of an ideal form. More mythological. Personally, I'd like to see more character flaws in the guy. You'd think he would have crack ages ago (like the Plutonian). But is it really his "otherness" that gives him such strength of character or is it his Earthian upbringing? We've seen plenty of Kryptonian bad guys. Something to think about.

 

In the current continuity, his main character flaw is arrogance. He knows he's basically invulnerable and he feels like he knows better. The line between the love he has for the common person and his feeling that he could do better is a thin one, and frankly the world power structure doesn't trust him, because they know he doesn't trust them. But its deeper than just fighting the power; sometimes he really does want to run everything, and he scares even himself.

 

And you're right, he's definitely idealized. The point of "All-Star Superman" is that he more or less is the modern Sun God.

 

Ma & Pa Kent are Da Bomb.

-Thoth

 

Absolutely! And there's a great miniseries called Superman Red Son about what would happen if he landed in Russia, no Kents. A wonderful and thought provoking story.

 

Orren

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Thanks for the warning. I agree. The Batman people really need to get their act together.

 

Back in my youth I remember a short period where Superman was transformed radically in every issue: giant brain Superman, gorilla body Superman, robot Superman, teen-punk Superman, lobster Superman. There was even an issue where everybody on Earth had Superman's powers except Clark Kent, who was the only "normal" human in the world. It seems we'll never run out of Superman stories*. I'm looking forward to the darker Superman. (Maybe he'll finally fry Lex with his heat vision. He lobotomized him that way on an alternate Earth.)

 

Thanks for the updates and details, Orren.

I guess I really need to catch up.

-Thoth

 

* In 1978 there was a Superman vs. Muhammad Ali one-shot (72 pages). Don't cringe. The plot actually made sense. It was re-issued in 2010 in hardcover.

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