Steve E Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 I'm afraid you'll need to explain this one for me. If you're trying to urinate while you're running you will make a mess whether your tunic is up or down. If it's down, you'll wet yourself. Better to squat. Culturally, it means that the Master is very much smarter than the Student. I was going to use a Japanese joke but I thought it required too much explanation. It had to do with the words "Yes" and "No" — "Hai" and "Iie". Culturally, "Hai" is acceptable but a flat "Iie" is just plain rude. In the US or Germany the brevity of a negative response might be appreciated. In Japan it suggests that you consider the listener unworthy of an explanation. It's an insult. (I didn't say it was a funny joke.) I've also been interested in the many meanings and shades of meanings a word can take on. (E.g., fast - to move quickly, to hold immobile, to secure, to abstain, to act libertine, to be loyal, and I think there are a few more.) Are there many words like that in German? (Elf — eleven, nightmare, or is that Alp?) Words, without them we'd all be drawing graphic novels. -T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulCompton Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 A nightmare is an "Albtraum" although apparently Alb's meanings include that too. It doesn't seem a common usage though. We have our share of homonyms (eg. "ein" which is both "into" and the indefinite article) and homophones (mehr, Meer). And then there is my personal favourite: Zug. I'm not sure if Zug can be called a homonym really, as all of it's meanings come from the same etymology. I don't know enough about linguistics to know if that makes a difference. But I know that Zug has so many meanings that I have christened it the "word for everything". If you can't think of a word in German, just say "Zug". A Zug is a train. Or a draft of air. Or a military manoeuvre. Or a turn in a game. Or the inhaling part of a puff on a cigarette. Or perhaps even the prime mover of an articulated truck just as much as the whole truck including trailer(s). And it is a stroke/blow as in "seven in one blow" or "several with a single stroke". There are surely other meanings too - and then we can start adding prefix prepositions and it becomes an elevator (Aufzug), a house move (Umzug), a suit (Anzug) or a financial transaction that is also a processional entry (Einzug). And many more. It all comes from the noun form of "ziehen", the verb for pull/draw in the pun from the song above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whirlybird Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 A nightmare is an "Albtraum" although apparently Alb's meanings include that too. It doesn't seem a common usage though. We have our share of homonyms (eg. "ein" which is both "into" and the indefinite article) and homophones (mehr, Meer). And then there is my personal favourite: Zug. I'm not sure if Zug can be called a homonym really, as all of it's meanings come from the same etymology. I don't know enough about linguistics to know if that makes a difference. But I know that Zug has so many meanings that I have christened it the "word for everything". If you can't think of a word in German, just say "Zug". A Zug is a train. Or a draft of air. Or a military manoeuvre. Or a turn in a game. Or the inhaling part of a puff on a cigarette. Or perhaps even the prime mover of an articulated truck just as much as the whole truck including trailer(s). And it is a stroke/blow as in "seven in one blow" or "several with a single stroke". There are surely other meanings too - and then we can start adding prefix prepositions and it becomes an elevator (Aufzug), a house move (Umzug), a suit (Anzug) or a financial transaction that is also a processional entry (Einzug). And many more. It all comes from the noun form of "ziehen", the verb for pull/draw in the pun from the song above. Zug to you, Ironbark, and I mean it in a good way. -W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whirlybird Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 It needed to be explored, I think. I find language a fascinating topic. Every language comes with a culture that effects meaning. Culture changes over time. It's amazing that old books can be translated at all*. And the fact that there are people walking around with two or more languages in their head is humbling. I'm still struggling along with one. On a very simple note concerning language and culture, I was very surprised many, many years ago when I discovered titles of movies were changed depending on the country they were shown in. I had suspected they would merely be translated and not changed but that was not what happened. Here's a small sample "Last year's comedy hit Knocked Up was given the gentler title Slightly Pregnant in Roman Catholic Peru and the blunt One Night Big Belly in China. In Mexico, Juno received the inscrutable title Juno: Grow, Run and Stumble." Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/ent/movies/articles/2008/08/01/20080801movienames.html#ixzz1fcfUOkxe -W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve E Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Interesting. Along the same line, someone once told me that the title of the movie "The Batman" was "die Offiziersburschen" in German. Any truth to it? Seems wrong somehow. I keep thinking it should be Die Fledermaus ("The Bat" is an operetta composed by Johann Strauss II) or Die Fledermaus Mench? Or perhaps I'm just off the mark, expecting a literal translation like Whirly once did long ago. Culture, right? Zug Zug. -Thoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulCompton Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Interesting. Along the same line, someone once told me that the title of the movie "The Batman" was "die Offiziersburschen" in German. Any truth to it? Seems wrong somehow. I keep thinking it should be Die Fledermaus ("The Bat" is an operetta composed by Johann Strauss II) or Die Fledermaus Mench? Or perhaps I'm just off the mark, expecting a literal translation like Whirly once did ... I can't find any reference to it on IMDB's German site. But if the film was about a batman as in a military dogsbody then it would be about right (Der not Die). Your literal ideas are about right. I would have tipped "Die menschliche Fledermaus" (the human bat) but that doesn't work as a title because "bat" is a feminine noun. Certainly the batman films of the past couple of decades were released here as "Batman". Lots of film titles are very different in the translation, as whirly says, and sometimes it really is bad. But the translation just doesn't work either in many cases. "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" was literally "wedding in Greek", which just doesn't do it for me. Glancing at my DVD shelf I notice "The untouchables" as "the unbribable". That shaves mustard, but it doesn't cut it. If I happen to think of some other, really unsatisfactory, examples then I will add them here for the sake of wasting time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve E Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 ... If I happen to think of some other, really unsatisfactory, examples then I will add them here for the sake of wasting time. Thanks. Some of the best times of my life were wasted. But perhaps, when naming important things, like books and movies and characters, international translations should be taken into account. (Just staying on topic.) -Der Thoth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulCompton Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Thanks. Some of the best times of my life were wasted. But perhaps, when naming important things, like books and movies and characters, international translations should be taken into account. I found myself wondering when I reviewed my draft-so-far the other day about the whole translation issue. I suppose working as a translator makes me wonder how a translator would fare faced with my novel. And I have to say the answer is: pretty poorly. There are two places in the opening chapters where English proverbs are referred to somewhat obliquely. The reference is direct enough that almost any native speaker would understand, but I can't see any way to translate them effectively into German, so I daren't imagine that it would work in other languages. The consolation is that the likelihood of my novel ever being considered important enough to be translated is very slim anyway! (Some consolation) Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve E Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 This makes me wonder how Harry Potter managed to get officially translated into 67 languages. This does not include the two separate Portuguese translations (one into European Portuguese and one into Brazilian Portuguese) as well as two separate Chinese translations (one using Traditional Chinese characters and the other Simplified Chinese characters) or the Valencian adaptation of the Catalan edition, or the separate Serbian edition published in the Serbian Cyrillic alphabet. And, of course, none of the fan translations are included, nor the Rule 34 versions. And let us not forget all the unauthorized graphic novel parodies. Additionally, so many Britishisms are in the original book that there is a separate American English edition. But don't despair, Paul. The likelihood of your novel ever being considered important enough to be translated is far greater than you think. Publishers don't see "importance" the same way writers do. Tell them you'd do the translation of the book yourself, for free. Publishers are always looking for another revenue stream. (At least that's some consolation.) -Thoth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewitt Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 I have a friend who wants to translate my book project into Bahasa Malaysian because there are so few fantasy books written in BM. She is doing the first chapter as an exercise. Should be an interesting learning. -t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve E Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 I have a friend who wants to translate my book project into Bahasa Malaysian because there are so few fantasy books written in BM. ... Why "so few"? Isn't there much of a science-fiction/fantasy readership in Malaysia? Getting your book on the short list of available fantasy could be very good for your writing career. Just a thought. -T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulCompton Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Why "so few"? Isn't there much of a science-fiction/fantasy readership in Malaysia? Getting your book on the short list of available fantasy could be very good for your writing career. Just a thought. -T I once thought about having my short stories translated into Icelandic for a similar reason. A very small readership indeed, but there is little modern material written for the language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulCompton Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 If I happen to think of some other, really unsatisfactory, examples then I will add them here for the sake of wasting time. This one just jumped out at me from the TV guide in the clinic for this evening: "Autumn in New York" has become "It began in September". A nice title, but the original could have been translated without a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve E Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 This one just jumped out at me from the TV guide in the clinic for this evening: "Autumn in New York" has become "It began in September". A nice title, but the original could have been translated without a problem. In what language? Perhaps they were trying to generalize the location of the story. (Not everyone loves the Big Apple. ) -T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulCompton Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 In what language? Perhaps they were trying to generalize the location of the story. (Not everyone loves the Big Apple. ) -T Now you have a point there. I hadn't considered that. Samuel Johnson once declared that "when a man is tired of London, he is tired of life". The London of his time of course was not the London of today, and taste is a matter of taste, so to speak, but based on that judgement: I tire of life very quickly indeed. Oh, and the answer to your question: German. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve E Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 ... Samuel Johnson once declared that "when a man is tired of London, he is tired of life". The London of his time of course was not the London of today, and taste is a matter of taste, so to speak, but based on that judgement: I tire of life very quickly indeed. ... "Taste is a matter of taste." - You may have coined a phrase. -T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulCompton Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 "Taste is a matter of taste." - You may have coined a phrase. -T Thank you! I have been using that one (or slight variations on it) for about 5 years now, and you are the first person to have expressed appreciation (in my figurative presence). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve E Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Thank you! I have been using that one (or slight variations on it) for about 5 years now, and you are the first person to have expressed appreciation (in my figurative presence). You're welcome. ... Samuel Johnson once declared that "when a man is tired of London, he is tired of life". ... When a man is tired of New York he should take a nap. But don't sleep in the subways. -Thoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulCompton Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 When a man is tired of New York he should take a nap. But don't sleep in the subways. -Thoth Would it even be possible to sleep in the subways for more than a few minutes? (Like Udo Jürgens, ich war noch niemals in New York) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve E Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Would it even be possible to sleep in the subways for more than a few minutes? In college (a million years ago) I'd take the subway to campus and usually catch a good 20 minutes of extra sleep. And I never missed my stop. (Like Udo Jürgens, ich war noch niemals in New York*) *English lyrics for those Storyists who don't read German. -Thoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whirlybird Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 You're welcome. When a man is tired of New York he should take a nap. But don't sleep in the subways. -Thoth T &IB, My take on T's statement regarding not sleeping in the subways is that you may wake up missing your shoes, some other article, or you may never wake up at all. -W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve E Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 T &IB, My take on T's statement regarding not sleeping in the subways is that you may wake up missing your shoe... or a kidney, -Thoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whirlybird Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 or a kidney, -Thoth T, That could mean you don't wake up at all unless the 'mugger' is an accomplished surgeon. Or you might have a 'Jack the Ripper' situation in NYC. -W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve E Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 That could mean you don't wake up at all unless the 'mugger' is an accomplished surgeon. Or you might have a 'Jack the Ripper' situation in NYC. It could be a serial "Ripper" but I suspect roving bands of subway surgeons. All those kidneys have to come from somewhere. -Thoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whirlybird Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 It could be a serial "Ripper" but I suspect roving bands of subway surgeons. All those kidneys have to come from somewhere. -Thoth Let's hope NYC doesn't have a rash of kidney pies for sale. -W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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