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Steve E

Has Leopard been Vista'ed

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It's official. So many important applications out there operate so buggy under Leopard, or not at all, that people are talking about going back to Tiger. In effect, what has happened to Vista seems to be happening to Leopard.

 

I'm afraid that until Photoshop, and several other big apps, produce a satisfactory Leopard version I am going back to doing all my work, including my writing, on my Tiger machine. This Leopard needs to change its spots.

 

Depressed and Disappointed.

-Thoth.

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It's official. So many important applications out there operate so buggy under Leopard, or not at all, that people are talking about going back to Tiger. In effect, what has happened to Vista seems to be happening to Leopard.

 

I'm afraid that until Photoshop, and several other big apps, produce a satisfactory Leopard version I am going back to doing all my work, including my writing, on my Tiger machine. This Leopard needs to change its spots.

 

Depressed and Disappointed.

-Thoth.

 

What problems are you having with Photoshop? Works fine for me.

 

-Steve

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What problems are you having with Photoshop? Works fine for me.

It won't launch. I figured it needed to be reinstalled. Then, after I got around to reinstalling it (face it, it's a big program) it still wouldn't launch. I made calls but got no satisfaction other than a vague statement that it has something to do with Leopard.

 

Does the scrolling under Leopard seem sorta "skippy" to you? I cleaned my track ball. It didn't help.

 

My G5 Duo is gathering dust.

-Thoth.

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Does the scrolling under Leopard seem sorta "skippy" to you? I cleaned my track ball. It didn't help.

 

Hadn't noticed a difference on a MacBook Pro or Mac Pro. Both of these machines have lots of memory, though. The PowerBook G4 (only 512k) is running Tiger.

 

-Steve

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Hadn't noticed a difference on a MacBook Pro or Mac Pro. Both of these machines have lots of memory, though.

Do you think that could be the problem? If I may ask, how much memory are you running these machines on?

 

Maybe in need of a memory upgrade,

-Thoth.

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It's official. So many important applications out there operate so buggy under Leopard, or not at all, that people are talking about going back to Tiger. In effect, what has happened to Vista seems to be happening to Leopard.

 

I'm afraid that until Photoshop, and several other big apps, produce a satisfactory Leopard version I am going back to doing all my work, including my writing, on my Tiger machine. This Leopard needs to change its spots.

 

I'm with you. I've had the strangest sets of problems since moving to Leopard. Lately, Thunderbird ceases being able to send mail until I reboot my powerbook. Coconut Battery reports just plain loony charge numbers. I run into strange problems in other apps that always seemed to work fine on Tiger. Usually they are just minor things that you forget about shortly after, but cumulatively, the general bugginess is really disappointing. I don't know if this is an effect of Leopard or it's just that every other developer out there is doing shoddy work, but I know where I'll lay odds. I still haven't been brave enough to suggest that my wife upgrade her Mac because of my experience.

 

IF

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Hadn't noticed a difference on a MacBook Pro or Mac Pro. Both of these machines have lots of memory, though. The PowerBook G4 (only 512k) is running Tiger.

 

-Steve

 

So when are you going to start the ports of Storyist to other platforms? I'm particularly interested in the web application version built on Google's new web application framework. :lol:

 

IF

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Do you think that could be the problem? If I may ask, how much memory are you running these machines on?

 

Maybe in need of a memory upgrade,

-Thoth.

 

2G

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2G

I'm running at 1G, the way it shipped. Which you'd think should be enough room for Leopard.

 

Additional calls have produced this possible scenario: Just as you can't predict with complete certainty the results of drug interactions in the bodily systems of different people, Apple was unable to predict the interactions of software from non-Apple vendors in the Leopard environment. When I find the time I'm going to experiment by removing some things to see if that makes other things work better, or at all!

 

Also, I have indications that Isaac's experiences with Leopard, as well as my own, may actually be the norm. This is a little frightening since past Mac OS releases have always been so stable. I hope they haven't gotten so big (and arrogant) that they've developed a Microsoft attitude about quirks in their releases.

 

Apprehensive,

-Thoth

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Additional calls have produced this possible scenario: Just as you can't predict with complete certainty the results of drug interactions in the bodily systems of different people, Apple was unable to predict the interactions of software from non-Apple vendors in the Leopard environment. When I find the time I'm going to experiment by removing some things to see if that makes other things work better, or at all!

 

Apprehensive,

-Thoth

 

I'm running Leopard on an old G4 e-Mac with 768MB of mem, and I am having no problems. That is, after I fixed the initial install which had a couple of annoyances. I did an upgrade install, and after that it would not put itself asleep anymore, and GarageBand would freeze up every time I tried to add a real instrument track to a project. That was just to name 2.

 

So after many hours of backing stuff up and recording vitals and all of that I wiped the drive with a clean install. Now everything works fine. I used to know how to entirely wipe any trace of a program from Windows (it is a matter of binary survival if you install apps from the web onto a Windows "hooker with her legs spread" security) but I never had the necessity to do it in Apple, and it seems to be quite different.

 

I am most certain that it was a program (or piece of program) that was causing the trouble. Maybe that helps. Maybe not.

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I'm running Leopard on an old G4 e-Mac with 768MB of mem, and I am having no problems. That is, after I fixed the initial install which had a couple of annoyances. I did an upgrade install, and after that it would not put itself asleep anymore, and GarageBand would freeze up every time I tried to add a real instrument track to a project. That was just to name 2.

 

So after many hours of backing stuff up and recording vitals and all of that I wiped the drive with a clean install. Now everything works fine. I used to know how to entirely wipe any trace of a program from Windows (it is a matter of binary survival if you install apps from the web onto a Windows "hooker with her legs spread" security) but I never had the necessity to do it in Apple, and it seems to be quite different.

 

I am most certain that it was a program (or piece of program) that was causing the trouble. Maybe that helps. Maybe not.

 

I think as long as you exclusively run Apple software, you will be ok. They use secret API calls to make their stuff run faster than 3rd party software, and perhaps it's the public APIs that are buggy.

 

I run a wide assortment of applications from all over that never have problems on my Tiger systems. Things like Thunderbird and Adium work just fine on my mac mini running Tiger. My powerbook has a clean install (not upgrade) of Leopard, and has had nothing but problems since the move. I fear, though, that I upgraded key files (like keychain and some others) that make it a headache to backtrack to Tiger.

 

IF

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...

I am most certain that it was a program (or piece of program) that was causing the trouble. Maybe that helps. Maybe not.

Thank you, Thoyd. I think it does.

 

And welcome back to the forum,

-Thoth.

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Thank you, Thoyd. I think it does.

 

And welcome back to the forum,

-Thoth.

A couple of additional comments.

 

1. Someone wrote in to the latest MacWorld complaining about sluggish response from Leopard on a G5 Duo. It made me think twice about upgrading even though my recalcitrant company has finally decided to make the move to Adobe CS3. So the problem certainly isn't unheard of. The writer didn't say how much RAM he had installed. I'd wondered if it was an Intel/non-Intel issue, but Thoyd's experience suggests not.

 

2. Photoshop is a memory hog on its own. Could running it and Leopard simultaneously be slowing down your system?

 

Condolences!

Marguerite

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I think as long as you exclusively run Apple software, you will be ok. They use secret API calls to make their stuff run faster than 3rd party software, and perhaps it's the public APIs that are buggy.

You're probably right. But, like you, I run a fair assortment of non-Apple applications. (No doubt not at many as you since I'm not a software developer.) And what is this about "secret API calls"? I thought Apple was supposed to be the open and above board software company?

 

My powerbook has a clean install (not upgrade) of Leopard, and has had nothing but problems since the move. I fear, though, that I upgraded key files (like keychain and some others) that make it a headache to backtrack to Tiger.

I suppose (I hope) if Apple hears about enough problems with Leopard they'll have it all cleaned up in the next release. But I get the impression that they currently feel it's not their problem to fix.

 

They're getting more like Microsoft all the time.

-Thoth.

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You're probably right. But, like you, I run a fair assortment of non-Apple applications. (No doubt not at many as you since I'm not a software developer.) And what is this about "secret API calls"? I thought Apple was supposed to be the open and above board software company?

 

I read that one of the Mozilla developers who maintains the Mac port of Firefox discovered that Safari used undocumented API calls that made Safari much faster than Firefox. When Firefox is able to use those same calls, Firefox is much faster. Maybe it's a documentation oversight. Maybe they're trying to create an unfair advantage over third party software. The problem with having multiple APIs, though, is that the vendor (in this case Apple) will invariably focus their testing on the API they use, and not the API they expect everyone else to use.

 

I suppose (I hope) if Apple hears about enough problems with Leopard they'll have it all cleaned up in the next release. But I get the impression that they currently feel it's not their problem to fix.

 

It's a simple problem to fix. Simply stop buying Macs. What's that? You have a gazillion dollars invested in software for your Mac? Ah, well.

 

They're getting more like Microsoft all the time.

 

I don't think they're quite there, yet.

 

IF

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It's official. So many important applications out there operate so buggy under Leopard, or not at all, that people are talking about going back to Tiger. In effect, what has happened to Vista seems to be happening to Leopard.

 

I'm afraid that until Photoshop, and several other big apps, produce a satisfactory Leopard version I am going back to doing all my work, including my writing, on my Tiger machine. This Leopard needs to change its spots.

 

Depressed and Disappointed.

-Thoth.

You didn't say which version of Photoshop you're using. I assume it's the latest? Leopard is known to "break" everything before CS3: Adobe refuses to guarantee compatibility for any of the older versions.

M

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You didn't say which version of Photoshop you're using. I assume it's the latest? Leopard is known to "break" everything before CS3: Adobe refuses to guarantee compatibility for any of the older versions.

It's Adobe Photoshop CS3.

Oh well,

-Thoth.

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It's Adobe Photoshop CS3.

Oh well,

-Thoth.

Yeah, I suspected that was too simple an answer, but it never hurts to ask.

 

Crashing because Photoshop wants more memory than Leopard leaves it is not improbable, however. Photoshop CS2 did exactly that with Tiger.

Best,

M

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