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Revision Marks

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It's funny that this was mentioned in a different thread, because that's why I came here today. I'm working away on my story and I suddenly realize I've just written something completely off the wall, without any previous context, or, the sentence/paragraph/ohlet'sfaceitthewholedamnthing I just wrote sucks and needs editing. Usually I just italicize that text and move on, because I like to know it's there. It's bad, but it's there.

 

I don't know why I'm going into such detail about my process. :D

 

The request is: revision marks!

 

- Calli

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The request is: revision marks!

I use my pseudo-bookmarks, Calli uses italics. Either way we should be using revision marks.

 

I second the motion.

-Thoth.

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I use my pseudo-bookmarks, Calli uses italics. Either way we should be using revision marks.

 

I second the motion.

-Thoth.

What do you mean by revision marks, in this context? I thought Nadin had in mind something more like DP's track changes feature, but Calli and you appear to be asking for something else.

Curious,

M

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What do you mean by revision marks, in this context? I thought Nadin had in mind something more like DP's track changes feature, but Calli and you appear to be asking for something else.

Curious,

M

"Track changes" is just another (arguably better) way of making revision marks. In both cases we're noting what has changed but still requires our attention. But since an historical tracking of all changes would be much more difficult to implement, I'm willing to settle for revision marks for now.

 

Some people might just say, "Why don't you just back up your work and restore when necessary?" But, as Calli points out, you don't always know you're going to change something, especially after just writing a lot of stuff you want to save.

 

And then there's the multiple-author aspect of change management. But let's not go there.

 

Calli may have a different take on this, of course. We all use our tools as we see fit.

-Thoth.

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I was thinking classic proofreading marks, (ex. http://www.colorado.edu/Publications/styleguide/symbols.html) but I'm thinking not too many writers actually know what the symbols stand for...

Nice link. I'm going to bookmark it.

 

Plus, it might proof difficult to program. Hm.

Yep. That looks like a doozy to program as specified. The overstrike of special characters alone might require "transparent layering" like in graphics programs. But if you're willing to accept a compromise (e.g., color coded highlighting) it could be more easily doable. Do you know of any programs that enable editing marks or proofreading marks like the kind cited in your link?

 

Heck. I'd have been happy to know what to change (as opposed to how to change it).

-Thoth.

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Do you know of any programs that enable editing marks or proofreading marks like the kind cited in your link?

 

I've never seen it, no. Presumably because it's too hard to program. But, you know me, pipedream Girl.

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I've never seen it, no. Presumably because it's too hard to program. But, you know me, pipedream Girl.

Better a pipe dream than no dream. I wouldn't be at all surprised if some developer who already mixes text and graphics will read this and figure a way to make it work (assuming Steve doesn't do it first).

-Thoth.

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Better a pipe dream than no dream. I wouldn't be at all surprised if some developer who already mixes text and graphics will read this and figure a way to make it work (assuming Steve doesn't do it first).

-Thoth.

You can access double underlining, strike out, and different font colors through the Fonts Palette (command-T). These are the usual editing marks for insertions, deletions, and "lookie here: this needs some work." I doubt anyone will program real proofreaders' marks (although I use them all over my printed copy--too many years spent editing!).

 

You could even create custom styles with these attributes and apply them on the fly (although they may apply to whole paragraphs: not sure if we have character styles as yet).

M

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You can access double underlining, strike out, and different font colors through the Fonts Palette (command-T). These are the usual editing marks for insertions, deletions, and "lookie here: this needs some work." I doubt anyone will program real proofreaders' marks (although I use them all over my printed copy--too many years spent editing!).

 

You could even create custom styles with these attributes and apply them on the fly (although they may apply to whole paragraphs: not sure if we have character styles as yet).

M

While there are dozens of different editing marks or proofreading marks (like the kinds cited in Calli's link) I suppose three is far better than none. And as I've said elsewhere, I get along pretty well with my pseudo-bookmarks*. In any case, M, it sounds like you have a nice post for Using Storyist: Editing Marks For Storyist (or something like that). Care to give it a shot?

 

-Thoth.

 

*I also use red as a text color for "lookie here" text. I chose red because it's easiest for me to spot. Being able to highlight in red or yellow would be much better. Being able to Search for a specific color of text or highlight would be better still.

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While there are dozens of different editing marks or proofreading marks (like the kinds cited in Calli's link) I suppose three is far better than none. And as I've said elsewhere, I get along pretty well with my pseudo-bookmarks*. In any case, M, it sounds like you have a nice post for Using Storyist: Editing Marks For Storyist (or something like that). Care to give it a shot?

 

-Thoth.

 

*I also use red as a text color for "lookie here" text. I chose red because it's easiest for me to spot. Being able to highlight in red or yellow would be much better. Being able to Search for a specific color of text or highlight would be better still.

Yes, I will write something up: good idea. I'll explore the options tomorrow. Being able to search for specific text qualities (double underlining, red text, etc.) would definitely make this a more useful feature. That's why I use >, which don't appear in most fiction and non-mathematical writing (and for that reason are also typically used for editorial queries). It's easy to search for them and even to replace them, although replacing the associated text is more of a hunt and peck operation. That's where you want comments that can be nuked with a single click.

Best,

Marguerite

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While there are dozens of different editing marks or proofreading marks (like the kinds cited in Calli's link) I suppose three is far better than none. And as I've said elsewhere, I get along pretty well with my pseudo-bookmarks*. In any case, M, it sounds like you have a nice post for Using Storyist: Editing Marks For Storyist (or something like that). Care to give it a shot?

 

-Thoth.

 

*I also use red as a text color for "lookie here" text. I chose red because it's easiest for me to spot. Being able to highlight in red or yellow would be much better. Being able to Search for a specific color of text or highlight would be better still.

 

While I'm sure those marks are useful for hand editing, I would disagree that they should be implemented in software. The reason those marks exist is because they can be created with a pen. An editor gives you so many more options, including the color previously mentioned, but also the ability to add a sidebar.

 

In that excellent link Calli provided, the mark I would like to use in software is the description column. You could highlight the affected text inline, then on a sidebar, annotate the type of change.

 

My 2.654 cents (darned inflation).

 

IF

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While I'm sure those marks are useful for hand editing, I would disagree that they should be implemented in software. The reason those marks exist is because they can be created with a pen. An editor gives you so many more options, including the color previously mentioned, but also the ability to add a sidebar.

 

In that excellent link Calli provided, the mark I would like to use in software is the description column. You could highlight the affected text inline, then on a sidebar, annotate the type of change.

 

My 2.654 cents (darned inflation).

 

IF

No one was demanding that the marks had to be over the text. Just that such a program paralleled how editors do it. We discussed several types of implementation plus, if you examined Calli's link, you'd have noticed the "sidebar" option also used by proofreaders (in the line and in the margin). Of course we'd use multiple colors in the text to complement multiple marks in the margin.

 

I see your 2.645 cents US and raise you 2.0054 cents Canadian.

-Thoth.

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No one was demanding that the marks had to be over the text. Just that such a program paralleled how editors do it. We discussed several types of implementation plus, if you examined Calli's link, you'd have noticed the "sidebar" option also used by proofreaders (in the line and in the margin). Of course we'd use multiple colors in the text to complement multiple marks in the margin.

 

Yeah, I saw that sidebar option, and I thought that was a bit more appropriate. I don't necessarily agree with using several different colors, though, because I've run into too many color blind users. Also, my feeble mind just can't keep track of the meanings of too many colors, so I'd want to offload the bulk of the information to the side bar (or have some click to expand bubble action).

 

I see your 2.645 cents US and raise you 2.0054 cents Canadian.

 

The Canadian dollar is too strong. I can't match that.

 

IF

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Yeah, I saw that sidebar option, and I thought that was a bit more appropriate.

Agreed.

 

I don't necessarily agree with using several different colors, though, because I've run into too many color blind users.

Excellent point.

 

Also, my feeble mind just can't keep track of the meanings of too many colors...

I was thinking more of separate colors for the most common revision marks (say, delete and insert) and then maybe a single color for everything else. Or not. My own feeble mind has tracking problems as well. (False humility is still humility, I suppose.)

 

...so I'd want to offload the bulk of the information to the side bar (or have some click to expand bubble action).

Perfectly reasonable and functional. But I have to wonder just how far professional editors or self-editors will want to stray from the methodology they know so well. (Then again: I remember a time when no manager or executive would tolerate a keyboard on his desk. Too secretarial. But they came around. Now they all want the latest models to proudly display in order to show their (female) bosses how "with it" they are--and they call their secretaries "administrative assistants".)

 

The Canadian dollar is too strong. I can't match that.

I think you already have.

-Thoth.

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Agreed.

 

 

Excellent point.

 

 

I was thinking more of separate colors for the most common revision marks (say, delete and insert) and then maybe a single color for everything else. Or not. My own feeble mind has tracking problems as well. (False humility is still humility, I suppose.)

 

 

Perfectly reasonable and functional. But I have to wonder just how far professional editors or self-editors will want to stray from the methodology they know so well. (Then again: I remember a time when no manager or executive would tolerate a keyboard on his desk. Too secretarial. But they came around. Now they all want the latest models to proudly display in order to show their (female) bosses how "with it" they are--and they call their secretaries "administrative assistants".)

 

 

I think you already have.

-Thoth.

 

 

Editing marks... now that would be a dream... but given that most text editors handle this as tracking changes, just additions and deletions... don't see this happening. I use the damn things in printouts though... I keep my list short, to the symbols I use the most.

 

As to tracking changes, these days I find myself doing that with Neo Office... sad but true... after all the implementation in pages is not good. Though I will also use the track changes in Textmaker in the handheld

 

Textmaker was put together for windows and wilndows mobile, years ago by a small German company, and it is the best word processor for a handheld

 

Oh and I thought that was lost in a recent trip, I even seriously considered a subnotebook, Linux... open office... full fledged WP right there

 

From a programing perspective doing the track changes is hard enough, as it requires a database in the background doing that work. Adding real editing marks would mean a graphics engine as well... though that would make Storyist a tool for professional editors, who these days use word.

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