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Chapter 8!

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After months short on progress, I've "finished" writing chapter eight of my novel. That's 2^3 chapters! Who knew when I started my novel almost five years ago that I'd actually get this far. And you know what's funny? I'm not tired of it yet.

 

I hope you all are doing well on your projects too.

 

IF

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Congratulations!

 

I'm 3/4 done on 4 projects but on two of them I've written myself into a corner. It's the risk we pantsers take.

-Thoth.

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Congratulations!

 

I'm 3/4 done on 4 projects but on two of them I've written myself into a corner. It's the risk we pantsers take.

-Thoth.

Congratulations, Isaac! :o

 

Four projects at once, Thoth? How do you keep them all alive in your head? I was lassoed by an Evil Alien Overlord and forced to earn my daily bread for two weeks straight and now I'm spinning my wheels like mad trying to get the current crop of characters up and running again. I can't imagine keeping track of four sets at once.

 

Yeah, I've painted myself into a corner as well, in a way. That is, I know what I have to do to finish the rough draft, but having meandered my way to the end, I now realize that half the stuff leading up to this point has to change if I don't want readers tearing their hair out. So do I write the ending, knowing that I'm going to have to rewrite it, just to have a complete rough draft? Or do I go back to square one and put in the revisions, taking the risk of never writing the ending? I'm inclined to go with Plan A, but my characters seem to have other ideas!

 

I know, if I would only make use of those lovely Storyist outlining features, the cute little index cards and everything....

 

But dem's fightin' words to a pantser. :D Thank Steve for the Notebook, or my book would have no structure at all. And I did try using the Plot Points. I really did. Up to about chapter 12, when it started to take too much time away from the writing.

 

Maybe I'll go back and finish them up one day. Then again, even the thought of revising all the Plot Points I have to change makes me tired.

Must be nice to be a plotter. :D

Best,

M

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Four projects at once, Thoth? How do you keep them all alive in your head?

Thank Storyist, Lady M! (This has been an unpaid endorsement and I approve this message.)

 

Yeah, I've painted myself into a corner as well, in a way. That is, I know what I have to do to finish the rough draft, but having meandered my way to the end, I now realize that half the stuff leading up to this point has to change if I don't want readers tearing their hair out. So do I write the ending, knowing that I'm going to have to rewrite it, just to have a complete rough draft? Or do I go back to square one and put in the revisions, taking the risk of never writing the ending? I'm inclined to go with Plan A, but my characters seem to have other ideas!

I typically go ahead and write the ending and then do a re-write. I wonder if it makes more sense for pantsers to always write the ending first? Some writers do work that way.

 

I know, if I would only make use of those lovely Storyist outlining features, the cute little index cards and everything....

Oh, I know exactly what you mean. Filling out those plot cards can be such a distraction. That's why I make such extensive use of the notebook.

 

Plotters are pantless plodders who probably do more pantsing than they'll admit.

Time for lunch.

-Thoth.

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Plotters are pantless plodders who probably do more pantsing than they'll admit.

Time for lunch.

-Thoth.

Careful, there. I believe our esteemed developer is a self-described plotter. You'll never see those bookmarks if you insult him like that. ;)

 

Thanks for the advice. Yes, I will force my characters to behave and write the ending before revising. It will feel so good to have a "complete" if thoroughly unfinished ms.

 

Write the ending first? What an interesting idea. But it takes me 250 pages to figure out what the ending should be....

Pantsers forever!

M

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Careful, there. I believe our esteemed developer is a self-described plotter. You'll never see those bookmarks if you insult him like that. ;)

What? Insult? Good Steve. Nice Steve. Sméagol would never insult precious.

 

Write the ending first? What an interesting idea. But it takes me 250 pages to figure out what the ending should be....

It's been said that Steven King (and others) think up endings, beginnings and emotional high points first and then figure out how to connect them through character development. He described it as a form of archeology. Not unlike how Michelangelo would claim to just chip away at a block of marble to release the statue trapped inside.

 

I wonder how many ways there are of writing. (Nouns first, then verbs?)

 

Up the Panted. Down the Pantless.

-Thoth.

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I think we need to stop discriminating against the kilted.

And the skirted. And the g-stringed. And nudists! I see your point Isaac and feel appropriately chastised.

 

Chasten,

-Thoth.

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Ahh, I'm so glad you're back. It was sad and quiet without all you.

 

Keeping sort of in line with the topic of conversation though, I wonder what the word count difference between plotters and pantsers is. Hmm?

(And on writing styles - I usually start with a drawing of a character and a song. But I think I'm actually a different kind of writer - a graphic novel writer.)

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Ahh, I'm so glad you're back. It was sad and quiet without all you.

 

We were just letting our creativity gestate. I've got a good... two days worth built up by now.

 

Keeping sort of in line with the topic of conversation though, I wonder what the word count difference between plotters and pantsers is. Hmm?

(And on writing styles - I usually start with a drawing of a character and a song. But I think I'm actually a different kind of writer - a graphic novel writer.)

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the word count were the same between the (plot|pant)sters. The plotsters just put more of the words into their plot and section sheets. ;)

 

Since a picture paints a thousand words, you may be kicking all our butts.

 

IF

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Ahh, I'm so glad you're back. It was sad and quiet without all you.

Gee. And I thought you and Lady M would use the opportunity to stage a coup d'état.

 

Keeping sort of in line with the topic of conversation though, I wonder what the word count difference between plotters and pantsers is. Hmm?

I think panters get more on paper/disk faster. We've already jumped in the pool while plotters are still filling out plot cards. Of course, chances are we re-write more too. It's a trade-off. I suspect we all do both to a degree.

 

And on writing styles - I usually start with a drawing of a character and a song. But I think I'm actually a different kind of writer - a graphic novel writer.

You're obviously a very visual person and that influences your style. It's an old question for "cartoonists": Which comes first, the pictures or the words? While puttering around with ComicLife I sometimes look for a picture that fits the cool dialog I thought up. But more often than not, I start with pictures I like and try to create dialog that fits. Go figure.

 

Happy & Noisy & Stretching those tendons,

(My therapist, Sheila, comes at 2:30 today,)

-Thoth.

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Gee. And I thought you and Lady M would use the opportunity to stage a coup d'état.

Nah. It's much more fun pelting you with overmuffins. We EAOs-in-training need practice targets, you know. :P

 

I think panters get more on paper/disk faster. We've already jumped in the pool while plotters are still filling out plot cards. Of course, chances are we re-write more too. It's a trade-off. I suspect we all do both to a degree.

Shouldn't we call ourselves kilters now that Isaac has pointed out our discriminatory ways? ;)

 

You're obviously a very visual person and that influences your style. It's an old question for "cartoonists": Which comes first, the pictures or the words? While puttering around with ComicLife I sometimes look for a picture that fits the cool dialog I thought up. But more often than not, I start with pictures I like and try to create dialog that fits. Go figure.

Me, too, though, and I'm not a graphic novel writer, having flunked every drawing course that demanded more than stick figures (my son can draw: more evidence he must have been switched in the hospital). But since Storyist added the capacity to display pictures of my characters, I've never looked back. I search out the images first thing and keep them open all the time when I'm writing. They inspire me. To what remains to be seen.

 

Happy & Noisy & Stretching those tendons,

(My therapist, Sheila, comes at 2:30 today,)

-Thoth.

She'll have arrived and left by now. Hope the tendons are fully restored.

Kilters rule! :)

M

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On a completely unrelated note, I'm having a sale on slightly dirty and deformed overmuffins. Only 10 cents each. Local pickup only.

 

IF

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Nah. It's much more fun pelting you with overmuffins. We EAOs-in-training need practice targets, you know. :P

You're so bad.

 

Shouldn't we call ourselves kilters now that Isaac has pointed out our discriminatory ways? ;)

Hmm. But we'd have to give up our "seat-of-your-pants" metaphor. We could use "nosers" (follow-your-nose) or "gutters" (follow-your-gut) or "cuffers" (off-the-cuff, assuming you wear cuffs). No. It may not be politically correct but "pantsers" works for me. Can you come up with anything better than "kilters"?

 

I search out the images first thing and keep them open all the time when I'm writing. They inspire me. To what remains to be seen.

Looking forward to seeing.

 

Hope the tendons are fully restored.

Thanks. I can lift my elbow to almost 100 degrees now. 180 can't be far away. Still not much strength in the arm, though. Maybe I'll suggest an overmuffin hurling exercise to the therapist.

 

Nosers rule! :)

-Thoth

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On a completely unrelated note, I'm having a sale on slightly dirty and deformed overmuffins. Only 10 cents each. Local pickup only.

Too bad. I get my out-of-state overmuffins off of Amazon.com. Their special packaging preserves their muffiny goodness for the long trip.

-Thoth.

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Too bad. I get my out-of-state overmuffins off of Amazon.com. Their special packaging preserves their muffiny goodness for the long trip.

 

Ah, but Amazon's overmuffins haven't been thrown by an actual alien overlady.

 

The utilipantster,

IF

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Ah, but Amazon's overmuffins haven't been thrown by an actual alien overlady.

 

The utilipantster,

IF

Good point. And they have the original impact dents, you say?

 

The Uberpantster,

-Thoth

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Good point. And they have the original impact dents, you say?

 

Absolutely, guarantee, even a certificate of authenticity ($60 extra).

 

IF

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Absolutely, guarantee, even a certificate of authenticity ($60 extra).

Sounds like a bargain. As soon as I get my teleporter/telepantser working I'll pop right over.

 

Shoo, pesky flies.

-Thoth.

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You're so bad.

And working my way toward evil! :(

 

Hmm. But we'd have to give up our "seat-of-your-pants" metaphor. We could use "nosers" (follow-your-nose) or "gutters" (follow-your-gut) or "cuffers" (off-the-cuff, assuming you wear cuffs). No. It may not be politically correct but "pantsers" works for me. Can you come up with anything better than "kilters"?

What, people don't sit on their kilts? But I suppose if we shift, the pants-wearers will claim discrimination, too. It's always something. So pantsers it is.

 

Looking forward to seeing.

Me, too. The joy of pantsing: you never know what will appear till it does.

 

Thanks. I can lift my elbow to almost 100 degrees now. 180 can't be far away. Still not much strength in the arm, though. Maybe I'll suggest an overmuffin hurling exercise to the therapist.

 

Nosers rule! :D

-Thoth

Glad you're making progress. A little hurling of Isaac's discounted overmuffins sounds like just the thing. :)

Best,

M

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Hmm. But we'd have to give up our "seat-of-your-pants" metaphor. We could use "nosers" (follow-your-nose) or "gutters" (follow-your-gut) or "cuffers" (off-the-cuff, assuming you wear cuffs). No. It may not be politically correct but "pantsers" works for me. Can you come up with anything better than "kilters"?

 

Nosers rule! :(

-Thoth

Gutters would imply some sort of perverted mindedness (people with their minds in the gutter). Nosers sounds more like a brown-noser type thing.

Do you use this terminology outside of the forum?

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Gutters would imply some sort of perverted mindedness (people with their minds in the gutter). Nosers sounds more like a brown-noser type thing.

Do you use this terminology outside of the forum?

The pantser/plotter distinction is not original to us. There's an attribution somewhere on the forums, but I don't have time to look for it now. It's a useful way of encapsulating the difference between people who structure extensively before writing and those of us who dive in and hope for the best. I doubt either type exists in pure form in nature.

 

Thoth is merely being playful at the moment, as is his wont. :(

 

My "kilters" suggestion was also not meant to be taken seriously. One might even say it was off-kilter. :D

Best,

M

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My "kilters" suggestion was also not meant to be taken seriously. One might even say it was off-kilter. :(

 

If one wears a kilt and carries a sword, would that make them hilter-kilter?

 

IF

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Gutters would imply some sort of perverted mindedness (people with their minds in the gutter).

Or folks with a Freddy Kruger complex.

 

Nosers sounds more like a brown-noser type thing.

Very possibly.

 

Do you use this terminology outside of the forum?

What is this outside you speak of earth creature?

 

Still like pantsers.

-Thoth.

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My "kilters" suggestion was also not meant to be taken seriously. One might even say it was off-kilter. :(

Ouch!

 

With puns like that you don't need to hurl overmuffins.

-Thoth.

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