Invisible Command

[Steve E]

I'd like a command that would make anything in the Manuscript, in the Section Title style, disappear and be non-printable.

 

If you're saving Section Title style for something else then how about an Invisible style attribute that can be made to vanish on command like Comments and Bookmarks (using Show & Hide).

 

You knew this was coming.

-Thoth.

[Steakpirate]

I'd like a command that would make anything in the Manuscript, in the Section Title style, disappear and be non-printable.

 

If you're saving Section Title style for something else then how about an Invisible style that can be made to vanish on command.

 

You knew this was coming.

-Thoth.

 

 

You might prefer grayed out text, so that outside of print mode, you don't forget it exists, or you don't accidentally hide a chunk of your manuscript and think it's deleted. (And not be able to recover it from the trash, because it isn't deleted.

[Steve E]

You might prefer grayed out text, so that outside of print mode, you don't forget it exists, or you don't accidentally hide a chunk of your manuscript and think it's deleted. (And not be able to recover it from the trash, because it isn't deleted.

Why would I forget? I would know if I had any invisible text. And I could just turn it "on" again to see it. Selecting it would be unnecessary. "Visible" should be the command default anyway.

 

I should probably explain what I (and others) mean by "invisible" text. It isn't just text colored to match the background. The text, in effect, vanishes as if no text had been typed.

 

For example, if a paragraph takes up three lines and all the text in one of those lines has the attribute of "invisible" then, when I activate invisibles, the paragraph would have only two lines. If I then printed it, only two lines would print for that paragraph.

 

Obviously, I would need a command to easily turn all text with the "invisible" attribute on and off. If all it did was to turn the text gray the text would still take up space. (Basically, I'm talking about the invisible attribute in **shudder** MS Word.)

 

I know this isn't easy. But Steve did it for Section Titles in V1 so we know it's not impossible.

-Thoth.

[Steakpirate]

Why would I forget? I would know if I had any invisible text. And I could just turn it "on" again to see it. Selecting it would be unnecessary. "On" should be the command default anyway.

 

I should probably explain what I (and others) mean by "invisible" text. It isn't just text colored to match the background. The text, in effect, vanishes as if no text had been typed.

 

For example, if a paragraph takes up three lines and all the text in one of those lines has the attribute of "invisible" then, when I turn invisibles off, the paragraph would have only two lines. If I then printed it, only two lines would print for that paragraph.

 

Obviously, I would need a command to easily turn all text with the "invisible" attribute on and off. If all it did was to turn the text gray the text would still take up space. (Basically, I'm talking about the invisible attribute in **shudder** MS Word.)

 

I know this isn't easy. But Steve did it for Section Titles in V1 so we know it's not impossible.

-Thoth.

 

 

I know precisely what you meant, but I was saying that it would be very bad if you accidentally marked something as invisible.

 

I was suggesting that the text only be truly invisible in print view, unless you truly want it to be invisible in the main view.

If that is the case, you could toss a colored flag outside the manuscript around the start of the invisible text.

 

 

My main concern is that people like myself whilst mashing the keyboard, may accidentally lose a chunk of their treasured manuscript, to a place they might not know to look.

[Steve E]

I know precisely what you meant, but I was saying that it would be very bad if you accidentally marked something as invisible.

True. It would also be very bad if I accidentally deleted something. Or accidentally ... well, you know what I mean. A certain minimal degree of competence must be assumed. Steve can't make Storyist idiot proof, nor should he.

 

I was suggesting that the text only be truly invisible in print view, unless you truly want it to be invisible in the main view.

If that is the case, you could toss a colored flag outside the manuscript around the start of the invisible text.

Yes. I truly want it to be invisible in the main view, with no colored flag. I would find that distracting as I wrote. But, if you like, how about three modes: black, gray, gone?

 

My main concern is that people like myself whilst mashing the keyboard, may accidentally lose a chunk of their treasured manuscript, to a place they might not know to look.

Yes. If you delete a lot I could see you accidentally deleting some invisible text. Makes sense. But if that sort of thing worries you then why not just leave the invisibles visible? Or grayed as suggested above? Did you "Hide Section Titles" in V1 or did you leave them visible?

 

I want an invisible attribute, dang it.

-Thoth

[Steakpirate]

True. It would also be very bad if I accidentally deleted something. Or accidentally ... well, you know what I mean. A certain minimal degree of competence must be assumed. Steve can't make Storyist idiot proof, nor should he.

 

 

Yes. I truly want it to be invisible in the main view, with no colored flag. I would find that distracting as I wrote. But, if you like, how about three modes: black, gray, gone?

 

 

Yes. If you delete a lot I could see you accidentally deleting some invisible text. Makes sense. But if that sort of thing worries you then why not just leave the invisibles visible? Or grayed as suggested above? Did you "Hide Section Titles" in V1 or did you leave them visible?

 

 

There is a trash-can, but no invisibles can. But as Show invisibles would actually be easier to find, I suppose it's alright.

 

I never found the little blue links intrusive, but if your sections are already named in the text or you just don't like them, I can see how they would be.

 

At the very least, the Invisible text, when shown, could be grayed, so that you can tell it's marked as invisible.

[Steve E]

At the very least, the Invisible text, when shown, could be grayed, so that you can tell it's marked as invisible.

 

I don't mind gray as an option but my problem with it is that sometimes I do want to print the invisibles (while they're visible, of course) and I don't want them to print in gray. If I did I'd just apply a gray color attribute to them along with the invisible attribute.

 

-Thoth.

[Steakpirate]

I don't mind gray as an option but my problem with it is that sometimes I do want to print the invisibles (while they're visible, of course) and I don't want them to print in gray. If I did I'd just apply a gray color attribute to them along with the invisible attribute.

 

-Thoth.

 

Nooooo. The gray is just an identifier. Of course Storyist would be smart enough to Print them plain.

 

It's Organization VS. Presentation. When nobody but you sees it, it should appear in a way that best suits you. When you're presenting it (IE: Printing or export), it should look its prettiest.

[Steve E]

Nooooo. The gray is just an identifier. Of course Storyist would be smart enough to Print them plain.

I understand that's what you meant. My position is that the (identifier) color should be up to me (black, gray, gone).

 

It's Organization VS. Presentation. When nobody but you sees it, it should appear in a way that best suits you. When you're presenting it (IE: Printing or export), it should look its prettiest.

Why, thank you so much SP for explaining that to me. OvP! After years in product design, why didn't I see that!

 

But maybe, just maybe, I want my visible invisibles to be black. Not gray. Not purple. Not gone. Black. I know such an option might confuse some people but I want that option. You don't. Fine. I'll concede your option if you concede mine.

 

Really getting tired of this argument.

-Thoth.

[Steakpirate]

I understand that's what you meant. My position is that the (identifier) color should be up to me (black, gray, gone).

 

 

Why, thank you so much SP for explaining that to me. OvP! After years in product design, why didn't I see that!

 

But maybe, just maybe, I want my visible invisibles to be black. Not gray. Not purple. Not gone. Black. I know such an option might confuse some people but I want that option. You don't. Fine. I'll concede your option if you concede mine.

 

Really getting tired of this argument.

-Thoth.

 

'Slong as I have some means of identifying text as invisible, short of repeatedly flipping the switch, I don't care what color it is

[Steve E]

'Slong as I have some means of identifying text as invisible, short of repeatedly flipping the switch, I don't care what color it is

You mean like the Show/Hide "switch" you use with Bookmarks and Comments?

 

Second Wind

-Thoth.

[Steakpirate]

You mean like the Show/Hide "switch" you you with Bookmarks and Comments?

 

Second Wind

-Thoth.

 

Aye. I'd like to be able to find out exactly what I've marked as invisible, with little to no futzing around.

[Steve E]

Aye. I'd like to be able to find out exactly what I've marked as invisible, with little to no futzing around.

And choosing a Show/Hide command is your notion of "futzing"? Okay. Different stroke for different folks.

 

Steve will ultimately be the one to decide whether Invisibles are black or gray when visible (assuming he wishes to include this feature at all). So may I suggest the following: if he chooses gray I will simply change the color attribute of the text to black; if he choose black you may change its color attribute to gray (or green or blue or italic sparkle) or not use the feature at all as is your prerogative.

 

As for flagging invisible (hidden) Invisibles, well, if you do that then they're not really invisible, are they? Some people like the flags (e.g., the Comment "PostIt" icon) while others prefer a cleaner ("pretty") look while they work on their prose. It's just a personal preference. So may I suggest that if Steve wishes to use a here-lies-invisible-Invisibles flag he might handle it the same way he handles Comment flags, with the ability to Show/Hide the invisible-Invisibles flag.

 

See? Everyone can be happy with Storyist.

Storyist loves you.

-Thoth.

[Steakpirate]

And choosing a Show/Hide command is your notion of "futzing"? Okay. Different stroke for different folks.

 

Steve will ultimately be the one to decide whether Invisibles are black or gray when visible (assuming he wishes to include this feature at all). So may I suggest the following: if he chooses gray I will simply change the color attribute of the text to black; if he choose black you may change its color attribute to gray (or green or blue or italic sparkle) or not use the feature at all as is your prerogative.

 

As for flagging invisible (hidden) Invisibles, well, if you do that then they're not really invisible, are they? Some people like the flags (e.g., the Comment "PostIt" icon) while others prefer a cleaner ("pretty") look while they work on their prose. It's just a personal preference. So may I suggest that if Steve wishes to use a here-lies-invisible-Invisibles flag he might handle it the same way he handles Comment flags, with the ability to Show/Hide the invisible-Invisibles flag.

 

See? Everyone can be happy with Storyist.

Storyist loves you.

-Thoth.

 

If you have no means of telling what's invisible besides turning the text on and off, you might miss some characters, should you ever want to select it all and mark it as non-invisible.

 

And what happens if you decide to copy and paste a sentence or two from the invisible section? Without any special precautions, they'd carry over the Invisible style properties, and disappear wherever you put them, once you turn off show Invisibles.

 

I don't care what color it is, so long as you have a simple means of identifying them. A "Show Invisible Flags" button would be a perfectly solution.

 

I understand the need for Invisibles to be invisible, It is simply my philosophy that no application should provide you with the ability to screw yourself over, at least without jumping through some hoops.

 

I believe in a world where both things are possible.

[Steve E]

If you have no means of telling what's invisible besides turning the text on and off, you might miss some characters, should you ever want to select it all and mark it as non-invisible.

And yet people have been managing quite well with invisible Invisibles for a long time in many Word Processors (Nisus and Word come to mind). Again, I'm not objecting to the option. But thank you for your concern.

 

And what happens if you decide to copy and paste a sentence or two from the invisible section? Without any special precautions, they'd carry over the Invisible style properties, and disappear wherever you put them, once you turn off show Invisibles.

It's not a problem if that's exactly what you want. Again, I'm not objecting to the option.

 

I don't care what color it is, so long as you have a simple means of identifying them. A "Show Invisible Flags" button would be perfectly fine.

And I have no problem with a flag or other visible identifier as long as its presence is optional. (Are you sensing a pattern yet?)

 

It is simply my philosophy that no application should provide you with the ability to screw yourself over, at least without jumping through some hoops.

I wasn't aware that we were discussing your deeply held philosophical principles. But we Masonic Illuminati of the Seven Rings of Xanth prefer our Invisibles invisible and with a minimum of hoop jumping. Deny us our option of true invisibility and know our wrath. You don't want a Holy War on your hands, do you?

 

Warmest Regards to Skullcrusher Mountain,

-Thoth.

[Steakpirate]

Then it's settled. Options for all.

 

 

 

 

Except health options.

[Steve E]

Then it's settled. Options for all.

Yay!

 

Except health options.

Boo!