Outline first or just jump in?

[Whitebow]

NaNoWriMo is coming up and I have not outlined my novel yet. Do you think I should? Do you outline? Do you know what some famous authors do? I mean, did Hemingway outline and refine before he wrote? I'm thinking of just jumping in and starting to type, or is that a sure method to chaos? But if my novel would be lousy anyway, why should I outline first?

 

What do you think?

 

Whitebow

[marguerite]

NaNoWriMo is coming up and I have not outlined my novel yet. Do you think I should? Do you outline? Do you know what some famous authors do? I mean, did Hemingway outline and refine before he wrote? I'm thinking of just jumping in and starting to type, or is that a sure method to chaos? But if my novel would be lousy anyway, why should I outline first?

 

What do you think?

 

Whitebow

 

Ah, well, this is the eternal "plotters" vs. "pantsers" (as in write a novel by the seat of one's pants) conundrum: some authors outline in excruciating detail, and others sit down at the keyboard and type away. Also, are you trying to complete the specified number of pages (quality means nothing) or motivate yourself to produce something that will become a real novel one day (quality is important and winning not so much)?

 

Personally, although I'm not entering the contest this year, having too many people demanding non-novel work from me in November and a novel underway that requires a lot of planning, I always use roughly the same approach. I sit down and develop the general ideas, outline the chapter in the sense of writing a series of paragraphs describing my characters and what I want them to do, then ignore all the pre-planning as the dialogue and ideas come to me. I let the story flow where it will. But when I go back in the editing stage, I do use the (by now heavily revised) paragraphs to keep me on track.

 

Storyist has modified this a bit: I keep all the character descriptions and plot outlines and notes to self and even, when I produce them, synopses in Storyist. I write the book in Word, in part because Storyist doesn't yet handle automatic straight-to-curly quote conversion and in part because I'm lazy and don't want to have to import and export files every time I want to send a chapter to a critique partner. Having two separate programs also lets me keep them both on screen at once and flip back and forth (to stare at the JPEGs representing my characters while seeking inspiration, e.g.). If I arrange the windows properly I can even see both at once, because I have a large monitor.

 

So I'm somewhere in the middle. For one person's (PJ's?) really interesting technique of beginning with a screenplay, however, check the other subtopics in the Community Forum. I can't remember offhand where it is--probably in Writing Resources or under the Synopses thread, but it could also be part of a more general discussion. It seems like a particularly effective technique to use in this context.

 

In any case, good luck! You've taken the first step, right?

Marguerite

[Steve E]

There is something eminently satisfying in just plunging in and letting the story flow where it will. That said, I have to admit that I've "plunged" more often than I should have, letting other work slide, only to decide that the story really isn't going anywhere. (E.g., It's a slice of life thing that has no real ending or point, just some terrific dialog.) So I place it in my "inspiration" pile.

 

The serious writing I plan out. I tend to start out with a character and an idea (e.g., What is the character trying to achieve and why? Who or what is trying to stop him/her/it and why? How will the character overcome this? You know, basic protagonist/antagonist stuff.) This results in a rather skeletal outline. A beginning, middle, end sort of thing. I start writing dialog and flesh out the outline as I go. Snippets of dialog or scenes will come to me in the night and I'll write them down to be filed away for later use. To be completely candid, the direction of the story is likely to change on me as I write. (I swear it's not my doing. The characters sometimes have minds of their own!)

 

Some authors (Arthur Clarke comes to mind) can just sit down at a typewriter (yes, I said typewriter) and write a story from beginning to end, banging it all out from an initial story idea to a finished novel in one long weekend. Magic. Others (Stephen King comes to mind) write the bricks separately, sometimes over a period of years, and then build a framework in which to plug carefully-chosen bricks. "Spackle" then seamlessly blends it all together.

 

Of course, every "How To" book I've ever seen on the topic always says to build a very detailed outline first and then stick to it. It's probably good advice but I feel that it takes much of the joy out of writing. I suppose that's part of the price you pay when you're trying to make a living at it. There's no time to just wander in a new universe of your own creation when you have to put food on the table. (Agatha Christie used to complain that she despised writing her Hercule Poirot stories but they paid the bills.)

 

I hope some small part of this is helpful. Just keep in mind that it isn't one or the other. There are probably as many ways of writing as there are writers.

 

-Thoth.

[marguerite]

There is something eminently satisfying in just plunging in and letting the story flow where it will. That said, I have to admit that I've "plunged" more often than I should have, letting other work slide, only to decide that the story really isn't going anywhere. (E.g., It's a slice of life thing that has no real ending or point, just some terrific dialog.) So I place it in my "inspiration" pile.

 

The serious writing I plan out. I tend to start out with a character and an idea (e.g., What is the character trying to achieve and why? Who or what is trying to stop him/her/it and why? How will the character overcome this? You know, basic protagonist/antagonist stuff.) This results in a rather skeletal outline. A beginning, middle, end sort of thing. I start writing dialog and flesh out the outline as I go. Snippets of dialog or scenes will come to me in the night and I'll write them down to be filed away for later use. To be completely candid, the direction of the story is likely to change on me as I write. (I swear it's not my doing. The characters sometimes have minds of their own!)

 

Some authors (Arthur Clarke comes to mind) can just sit down at a typewriter (yes, I said typewriter) and write a story from beginning to end, banging it all out from an initial story idea to a finished novel in one long weekend. Magic. Others (Stephen King comes to mind) write the bricks separately, sometimes over a period of years, and then build a framework in which to plug carefully-chosen bricks. "Spackle" then seamlessly blends it all together.

 

Of course, every "How To" book I've ever seen on the topic always says to build a very detailed outline first and then stick to it. It's probably good advice but I feel that it takes much of the joy out of writing. I suppose that's part of the price you pay when you're trying to make a living at it. There's no time to just wander in a new universe of your own creation when you have to put food on the table. (Agatha Christie used to complain that she despised writing her Hercule Poirot stories but they paid the bills.)

 

I hope some small part of this is helpful. Just keep in mind that it isn't one or the other. There are probably as many ways of writing as there are writers.

 

-Thoth.

 

One small thing I'd add is that you can do the outlining/screenplay option now, then write the book in November. If the inspiration is there, you actually can write a complete, usable, 50,000-word draft in a month: I did it for the draft of the novel I'm currently trying to publish. In June--no connection to NaNoWriMo. Okay, so I was totally manic for three weeks: didn't sleep, barely ate, was a complete pest to my friends and relations, even tripped over the cats a few times, but it worked. Big chunks of that original dialogue and plot are still in the novel, although of course I spent the next year + revising the thing.

 

So if you know what you want to write when Nov. 1 comes around, there's no reason you can't produce something valuable.

Best,

Marguerite

[Steve]

Plotter or pantser? I've never heard it put quite that way before. I love it! I've just added a poll to this topic to collect answers to that question.

 

Maybe it is the software engineer and not the novelist talking, or maybe writing thrillers requires planning up front, but I'm pretty firmly in the "plotter" category. The other side has it's seductions, however.

 

For my NaNoWriMo manuscript last year, I decided to "pants" it. The novel, Wiretap, dealt with what happens when both presidential candidates are assassinated on the eve of the election. While I did end up with a couple of plot twists that I'm sure I would have missed were I writing from an outline, the first draft needs more work than previous first drafts. Of course previous first drafts took a lot longer to write.

[Steve E]

I'm pretty firmly in the "plotter" category. The other side has it's seductions, however.

For my NaNoWriMo manuscript last year, I decided to "pants" it.

 

Welcome to the Dark Side of the Force. Mwhahaha!

[marguerite]

Plotter or pantser? I've never heard it put quite that way before. I love it! I've just added a poll to this topic to collect answers to that question.

 

Maybe it is the software engineer and not the novelist talking, or maybe writing thrillers requires planning up front, but I'm pretty firmly in the "plotter" category. The other side has it's seductions, however.

 

For my NaNoWriMo manuscript last year, I decided to "pants" it. The novel, Wiretap, dealt with what happens when both presidential candidates are assassinated on the eve of the election. While I did end up with a couple of plot twists that I'm sure I would have missed were I writing from an outline, the first draft needs more work than previous first drafts. Of course previous first drafts took a lot longer to write.

 

Do you have a category for "recovering pantser"? And is it an accident that the two lefties (i.e., right-brain dominated) are also the "go with the flow" types?

M

[astillac]

I know, I shouldn't be waking up old threads, but I couldn't resist.

 

I am a firm pantser. Which, honestly, sounds like something I shouldn't be saying in public. But I am! Even as a kid, I'd write the stupid essay and then the outline. This whole plotting notion is a bit frightening. On the flip side of all this wonderful burning creativity is the fact that I can't remember what color my main character's eyes are. *nod* It's making the editing process (and book two!) a little difficult.

 

Hopefully Storyist will help me figure out what's going on.

 

 

I promise to try not to wake the dead threads,

Calli

[Steve E]

I promise to try not to wake the dead threads,

As the Moirae (Greek mythology), Parcae (Roman mythology) and Norns (Norse mythology) all know, the threads of life are finite in length but their lengths are not determined by us but by the gods (and insomniacs).

 

Zombie threads, what a concept!

-Thoth

[marguerite]

As the Moirae (Greek mythology), Parcae (Roman mythology) and Norns (Norse mythology) all know, the threads of life are finite in length but their lengths are not determined by us but by the gods (and insomniacs).

 

Zombie threads, what a concept!

-Thoth

 

Oh, goodness, why not wake them? (The dead threads, that is.) No fun to just leave them there, twirling slowly in their coffins.

 

Storyist is absolutely the best resource an unregenerate pantser can have. (I know, I previously aimed at recovering, but the plotting thing went out the window as soon as I started to write. I don't know how Steve does it, honestly!) I keep my .story file open all the time, so that I can see the pictures of my characters as I write and click over to find out whether some chap's eyes are blue or green. It's amazing how often I misremember!

 

Course, the file's full of notes that never came to anything because I abandoned the plot point before it ever really went anywhere, and my current .story file actually has no story text in it at all: just notes for the synopsis, goal/motivation/conflict workups, lists of questions that need answers, and all those essential pictures. The corkboard is my favorite feature.

 

But I'm sure I'll fill in all those character development points someday (probably when I finish the book).

Best,

Marguerite

[astillac]

But I'm sure I'll fill in all those character development points someday (probably when I finish the book).

 

 

Same here. I am writing the actual story in Storyist, however, simply because I don't like to switch between programs - I tend to get distracted. It's kind of amazing.

 

I actually thought about this thread last night while I was trying to get to sleep; I was trying to figure out why I can't seem to write an outline and stick with it. Part of it is my desire to let the characters do the talking, and part of it is the thrill of feeling like a really amazing writer (ha!) when something just happens. I have six plot points for the whole book. They're large, vague, and easily twisted. I honestly don't know what is going to happen. And I like it that way!

 

Pantsers forver!

- Calli

[Steve E]

On plotting versus pantsing:

 

"I never do a full outline, and if I did, I would not feel bound to it, because the view from inside a scene can be different from the view outside it. But neither do I just start writing and see what happens; I am far more disciplined than that."

-Piers Anthony (Author of the Xanth series, and others).

 

See? Some writers plotz in their pantz.

-Thoth.