Started my new novel today, well one of them

[thealtruismsociety]

But it's going to be one big poem, I wanted some opinions.

 

Within a forest dressed with snow, a tiny girl with freckles goes.

She runs and jumps and plays alive, without the worries held inside.

Of most adults, both women, men, but wait, I should begin again.

To say the girl who laughs and plays, our Heroine, her name is Fey.

 

Her first is Fey her last it is, Hargrove, a most amazing kid.

Now Fey was unaware this morn, the story that I tell was born.

Oblivious, she runs and skips, while swatting at the air with sticks.

She grabs a flower as she walks, to nestle in her tressled locks.

 

Here is the first 8 lines.

 

How I have it is each line is 16 (now) syllables (8 before and 8 after the middle comma, don't want that hard limit to change) and there are 4 lines grouped together. Should I put periods or commas anywhere, not sure how to format this.

[marguerite]

I am not a poet, but my impression is that you can punctuate it pretty much as you like, thanks to e.e. cummings and his pals.

 

Are you done with your screenplay, then? I saw you got to 90 pages.

M

[thealtruismsociety]

I am not a poet, but my impression is that you can punctuate it pretty much as you like, thanks to e.e. cummings and his pals.

 

Are you done with your screenplay, then? I saw you got to 90 pages.

M

 

Nah I did it in training during free time at work.

[Joolissa]

Hey TAS

 

I love it! Very nice stuff. I am very interested in the story now.

 

One suggestion I have is I think there should be an "and" between "both women, men". My mind read it with an and and though it breaks your 8 syllable pattern, it makes more sense to me. That is just my opinion though, feel free to ignore it. I know how important (and sometimes a pain) syllable patterns can be!

 

As for punctuation goes. I think it's both acceptable to not have any punctuation at the end and use capitals at the beginning of each line OR format it as you normall would if it were all on one line. The advantage to that is that it helps link together sentences within the poem format and eliminate confusion, especially in something as long as you are planning.

 

I was slightly confused by the "Of Most Adults" part myself. While you probably meant "She runs and jumps and plays alive without the worries held inside of most adults, both women, men." my mind split the poem into 4 sentences of two lines each leaving me with: "She runs and jumps and plays alive without the worries held inside. Of most adults, both women, men, but wait let me start again." It was slightly confusing, but not enough to hinder my reading or enjoyment of it. Since everyone's mind works differently, they might connect lines you didn't mean to be connected. Adding punctuation would probably eliminate any confusion related to that.

 

If I were to add punctuation, I would do something like this:

 

Within a forest dressed with snow

a tiny girl with freckles goes.

She runs and jumps and plays alive

without the worries held inside

of most adults, both women, men.

But wait, I should begin again

to say the girl who laughs and plays,

our heroine, her name is Fey.

 

That's my take on it. I do both in my own poetry writing, depending on the poem.

 

How long are you planning to make your novel? I've never read a novel in a format like you are planning and I'm very curious to see how something of length would read in this kind of format. It sounds like a very interesting project! I hope you will share more!

- Jules

[thealtruismsociety]

Hey TAS

 

I love it! Very nice stuff. I am very interested in the story now.

 

One suggestion I have is I think there should be an "and" between "both women, men". My mind read it with an and and though it breaks your 8 syllable pattern, it makes more sense to me. That is just my opinion though, feel free to ignore it. I know how important (and sometimes a pain) syllable patterns can be!

 

As for punctuation goes. I think it's both acceptable to not have any punctuation at the end and use capitals at the beginning of each line OR format it as you normall would if it were all on one line. The advantage to that is that it helps link together sentences within the poem format and eliminate confusion, especially in something as long as you are planning.

 

I was slightly confused by the "Of Most Adults" part myself. While you probably meant "She runs and jumps and plays alive without the worries held inside of most adults, both women, men." my mind split the poem into 4 sentences of two lines each leaving me with: "She runs and jumps and plays alive without the worries held inside. Of most adults, both women, men, but wait let me start again." It was slightly confusing, but not enough to hinder my reading or enjoyment of it. Since everyone's mind works differently, they might connect lines you didn't mean to be connected. Adding punctuation would probably eliminate any confusion related to that.

 

If I were to add punctuation, I would do something like this:

 

Within a forest dressed with snow

a tiny girl with freckles goes.

She runs and jumps and plays alive

without the worries held inside

of most adults, both women, men.

But wait, I should begin again

to say the girl who laughs and plays,

our heroine, her name is Fey.

 

That's my take on it. I do both in my own poetry writing, depending on the poem.

 

How long are you planning to make your novel? I've never read a novel in a format like you are planning and I'm very curious to see how something of length would read in this kind of format. It sounds like a very interesting project! I hope you will share more!

- Jules

 

Yeah that's why I was asking about punctuation oh and I formatted it wrong, I fixed the original post and added the second set I did at work today, this should read a little better.

[thealtruismsociety]

Oh did you see the Alice book, this is PRECISELY what I was thinking of for years with this story in mind. It's kinda a tween and under poem novel. How long, not sure I was thinking 50-100 pages. It would be a series as well.

[Joolissa]

I like the longer lines much better. I am still a bit confused by the period after each line, since each line doesn't seem like it's own sentence. Here's my suggestions.

 

Within a forest dressed with snow, a tiny girl with freckles goes.

She runs and jumps and plays alive, without the worries held inside

of most adults, both women, men, but wait, I should begin again,

to say the girl who laughs and plays, our Heroine, her name is Fey.

 

Unless of course you did mean for them to be separate sentences and I'm just missing that, which I very easily could be! If you were in essence interrupting your new sentence on "Of most adults" by saying "wait", maybe you could add an ellipses? Something like:

 

She runs and jumps and plays alive, without the worries held inside.

Of most adults, both women, men, ...but wait, I should begin again,

 

It's probably not what you want, but maybe it'll give you an idea.

 

I also have one other question, how did she pick a flower if it's winter?

 

I am sooooo curious about the story now! Oh and I love the image of "tressled locks". It's great and very kid-like. The subtle rhyming with nestle is good too. Lovely images.

- Jules

[Joolissa]

Oh did you see the Alice book, this is PRECISELY what I was thinking of for years with this story in mind. It's kinda a tween and under poem novel. How long, not sure I was thinking 50-100 pages. It would be a series as well.

 

Yes I loved that Alice book and I've had similar ideas too. It's exciting to see a format that can take stories in this direction.

 

I think your poem story has a great tone for Tweens and under and that seems like a good length. If you add all sorts of cool things like the Alice book, it be really awesome. I've wanted to do the same thing with kids books.

- J

[thealtruismsociety]

I like the longer lines much better. I am still a bit confused by the period after each line, since each line doesn't seem like it's own sentence. Here's my suggestions.

 

Within a forest dressed with snow, a tiny girl with freckles goes.

She runs and jumps and plays alive, without the worries held inside

of most adults, both women, men, but wait, I should begin again,

to say the girl who laughs and plays, our Heroine, her name is Fey.

 

Unless of course you did mean for them to be separate sentences and I'm just missing that, which I very easily could be! If you were in essence interrupting your new sentence on "Of most adults" by saying "wait", maybe you could add an ellipses? Something like:

 

She runs and jumps and plays alive, without the worries held inside.

Of most adults, both women, men, ...but wait, I should begin again,

 

It's probably not what you want, but maybe it'll give you an idea.

 

I also have one other question, how did she pick a flower if it's winter?

 

I am sooooo curious about the story now! Oh and I love the image of "tressled locks". It's great and very kid-like. The subtle rhyming with nestle is good too. Lovely images.

- Jules

 

Remember I was a rapper in my previous life, rhyming is what I do well lol.

 

It's a special flower and that's to come later, winter flower, this is a special forest and all.

 

Also the way I have it has a definite and continuous cadence. That's why I don't want to add ... and the like, there are no pauses. That's why each part is 8 syllables. The cadence is always the same and steady.

 

Hey thanks but that story is kinda back burner I was just inspired somewhat.

 

But the Story is called - The Wey of Fey

 

So it has Fey, and Weyvryns (Dragons), Get the name, hehe.

[thealtruismsociety]

Yes I loved that Alice book and I've had similar ideas too. It's exciting to see a format that can take stories in this direction.

 

I think your poem story has a great tone for Tweens and under and that seems like a good length. If you add all sorts of cool things like the Alice book, it be really awesome. I've wanted to do the same thing with kids books.

- J

 

I mean I was thinking any longer may lose some kids. It's a poem after all. Not trying to write the next Iliad ... yet.

[Joolissa]

It's a special flower and that's to come later, winter flower, this is a special forest and all.

 

I thought maybe it was.

 

But the Story is called - The Wey of Fey

 

So it has Fey, and Weyvryns (Dragons), Get the name, hehe.

 

Ahh! Dragons! I'm dying to read it. I'm anxiously awaiting it's completion!

- Jools

[thealtruismsociety]

I thought maybe it was.

 

 

 

Ahh! Dragons! I'm dying to read it. I'm anxiously awaiting it's completion!

- Jools

 

I've always loved Dragons, ALWAYS!

 

I'm also considering just how to do dialogue but I'm thinking follow the same format.

[Joolissa]

Me too. I love dragons and gryffins and other things like that.

 

You may consider adding or removing some syllables for the dialog to give it some distinction. You could still keep a syllable pattern, but maybe have it be 18 or 14 or 10 syllables per line. I'd try it both ways and see which one you like and what works for the story. There's nothing saying you can't change your mind later.

- J

[Steve E]

Hi. I'm done with scripting for today.

Saw your poem TAS. I like it, but to be painfully honest, it grates a little on my virgin ears.

Here's my 2¢ worth of opinion.

I would rewrite the first quatrain thusly:

In a forest dressed in winter snows, a tiny girl with freckles goes.

She runs and jumps and plays alive, without a worry held inside.

Of most adults, women and men — but wait, I should begin again.

Our girl who will both laugh and play; Our Heroine, her name is Fey.

 

As for the next:

Her first is Fey, her last it is Hargrove, a most amazing kid.

Now Fey was unaware this morn, the story that I tell was born.

Oblivious, she runs and skips, while swatting at the air with sticks.

She grabs a flower as she walks, to nestle in her tressled locks.

 

I have no idea what you're going for in terms of a rhyming scheme.

"Hargrove"?

 

Well, as long as you're having fun, everything else can be handled in the rewrite.

- Thoth

[thealtruismsociety]

Hi. I'm done with scripting for today.

Saw your poem TAS. I like it, but to be painfully honest, it grates a little on my virgin ears.

Here's my 2¢ worth of opinion.

I would rewrite the first quatrain thusly:

 

 

As for the next:

 

 

I have no idea what you're going for in terms of a rhyming scheme.

"Hargrove"?

 

Well, as long as you're having fun, everything else can be handled in the rewrite.

- Thoth

 

Painfully honest is the only way to be.

 

Also some of your rewrites use more than 8 syllables per part, that's a firm restriction I have.

 

The last word of each 8 syllable part rhymes

 

snows, goes

alive, inside

men, again

play, fey

 

is, kid

morn, born

skips, sticks

walks, locks

[Joolissa]

I like Thoths suggestions a lot, but you can keep your original part about the forest to keep the 8 syllables. I agree about the Hargrove part. That line tripped me up on re-read (I have a tendency to rewrite things in my head when I read... so sometimes it takes me a few reads to actually see what exactly was written). It's a bit awkward to put the comma right after is without finishing the thought. In regular writing there wouldn't be a pause there, especially without a pause before the first name.

 

If Hargrove isn't set in stone, I might play with the whole line. I'd make it "her first is Fey, her last is [name], a most amazing [word such as little] [kid/girl/child/etc.]" It keeps the pattern of "her first is" ... "her last is..." and your middling comma.

 

I also don't think is rhymes with kid. You've got a couple almost rhymes... like alive and inside and skips and sticks, but they're close enough. Kid and Is just sticks out to me in that list.

 

 

Out of curiosity, is there a significance to the 8/16 syllables? (Not saying anything against it. I am just curious to why you picked 8) Are those numbers significant to the story or are they something you picked because you like? Another reason?

- Jules

[thealtruismsociety]

I like Thoths suggestions a lot, but you can keep your original part about the forest to keep the 8 syllables. I agree about the Hargrove part. That line tripped me up on re-read (I have a tendency to rewrite things in my head when I read... so sometimes it takes me a few reads to actually see what exactly was written). It's a bit awkward to put the comma right after is without finishing the thought. In regular writing there wouldn't be a pause there, especially without a pause before the first name.

 

If Hargrove isn't set in stone, I might play with the whole line. I'd make it "her first is Fey, her last is [name], a most amazing [word such as little] [kid/girl/child/etc.]" It keeps the pattern of "her first is" ... "her last is..." and your middling comma.

 

I also don't think is rhymes with kid. You've got a couple almost rhymes... like alive and inside and skips and sticks, but they're close enough. Kid and Is just sticks out to me in that list.

 

 

Out of curiosity, is there a significance to the 8/16 syllables? (Not saying anything against it. I am just curious to why you picked 8) Are those numbers significant to the story or are they something you picked because you like? Another reason?

- Jules

 

If you say it, "is" is close enough to kid to not jar. Trust me on this, hehe.

 

8 was long enough to get a decent amount of detail in, just worked for me. Nothing special about it.

 

And Hargrove is her last name, that's not changing. Hargrove works just fine because of the cadence of using 8 syllables. Maybe say it aloud rather than just reading.

 

Maybe I'll have to do a little reading here. Hehe

[Steve E]

Also some of your rewrites use more than 8 syllables per part, that's a firm restriction I have.

Okay. I didn't catch that.

 

The last word of each 8 syllable part rhymes

I don't know your regional accent so I'm at a bit of a disadvantage here.

 

You wrote "snow" not "snows", to rhyme with goes.

alive and inside do not rhyme.

men and again do not rhyme unless you're from Brooklyn (or other places).

play and fey work for me.

is and kid do not rhyme.

morn and born work fine

skips and sticks do not rhyme.

walks and locks aren't even close. Is it the "ks" you're hearing? Would you rhyme walks with kicks? Now I'm really curious about how you talk.

 

But in the end, poetry is very subjective.

I did enjoy the imagery and that's the most important part. As mentioned above, E. E. Cummings really changed the rules. Consider the beginning of "why must itself up every of a park":

why must itself up every of a park

anus stick some quote statue unquote to

prove that a hero equals any jerk

who was afraid to dare to answer "no"?

- E. E. Cummings

/thoth/

[thealtruismsociety]

Okay. I didn't catch that.

 

 

I don't know your regional accent so I'm at a bit of a disadvantage here.

 

You wrote "snow" not "snows", to rhyme with goes.

alive and inside do not rhyme.

men and again do not rhyme unless you're from Brooklyn (or other places).

play and fey work for me.

is and kid do not rhyme.

morn and born work fine

skips and sticks do not rhyme.

walks and locks aren't even close. Is it the "ks" you're hearing? Would you rhyme walks with kicks? Now I'm really curious about how you talk.

 

But in the end, poetry is very subjective.

I did enjoy the imagery and that's the most important part. As mentioned above, E. E. Cummings really changed the rules. Consider the beginning of "why must itself up every of a park":

 

/thoth/

 

Yup the ks makes em rhyme with the ah before in each.

 

And some may not technically rhyme but your mind fills in the blanks as it does with so many other things. When read it does rhyme.

 

In snow and goes, the oh in both words is what makes the rhyme for instance.

[thealtruismsociety]

Tired must go to bed, hit 95 pages tonight. I can debate tomorrow. Think I will record myself reading these.

[Steve E]

Yup the ks makes em rhyme with the ah before in each.

"alks" and "ocks" rhyme? Not to my ears.

That's the problem with poetry, it's subject to regional dialect.

- Thoth

[thealtruismsociety]

"alks" and "ocks" rhyme? Not to my ears.

That's the problem with poetry, it's subject to regional dialect.

- Thoth

 

This is very true.

 

Then again some poetry doesn't rhyme at all.

[Joolissa]

I had to read that e.e. cummings poem about 10 times to understand it. I need to read that book of his I got for christmas... of course it's buried in all the moving chaos. *sigh*

 

Thoth, I must disagree about walks and locks. They are very close to me. I pronounce walk very close to wok, which does rhyme with lock. The same with Men and Again, unless you're pronouncing again to rhyme with gain (ah-gain). If you pronounce it to rhyme with Hen (ah-ghen), it rhymes. That's typically how I pronounce it. Maybe you pronounce it ah-gain?

 

I agree about alive and inside, but they don't bug me too much. Skips and Sticks are close enough via they start with s, have an "ih" sound in the middle, and end with s again. Close enough to overlook for me. Snow and goes... I don't mind plural and singular rhymes like that most of the time. Go rhymes with snow, goes and snows... in my book I'd rhyme snows and go or goes and snows if it was necessary. Some might be more picky than me though.

 

I still trip over the multiple pauses and mid thought pause with the Is, Hargrove, Kid bit. It's not so much the name, it's the pause before and after it. It's the only line I stumble over in the whole thing. Both aloud and read. As a book, it will be read a lot more than it will be spoken, even as a poem, especially if it's for tweens, unless you're planning a built in audio reading of it of course.

 

Like Thoth said, it's all subjective and can be revised later. I would like to hear how you both pronounce things. I find the whole pronunciation part of this very interesting. I haven't ever thought about pronunciation and rhyming in depth. It's intriguing.

 

- Jules

ps. don't forget all writers are opinionated in our own ways, so keep lots of salt around for our opinions.

[Joolissa]

Boo! I am too slow. I think and read over my responses too much. Heh... Night TAS! I'd love to hear your recordings if you decide to share them.

[Steve E]

...

Thoth, I must disagree about walks and locks. They are very close to me. I pronounce walk very close to wok, which does rhyme with lock. The same with Men and Again, unless you're pronouncing again to rhyme with gain (ah-gain). If you pronounce it to rhyme with Hen (ah-ghen), it rhymes. That's typically how I pronounce it. Maybe you pronounce it ah-gain?

...

Just for the record, Juliboo, I find it fascinating that both you and TAS rhyme "walks" and "locks". They both sound completely different to me. To me "walks" rhymes with "gawks" and "locks" rhymes with "pox". Would you rhyme "gawks" and "pox"? If so, perhaps you and TAS grew up in the same neck of the woods. Now that would be an interesting coincidence (to me anyway).

 

While we're on the subject, I pronounce "again" as "a-gan", which would rhyme with "man" but not "men". And, yes, I realize that in many parts of the country it is pronounced "a-gen". Both pronunciations are recognized by the Oxford American Dictionary so TAS certainly isn't wrong. It's a poem, after all, so arguably, he is wrong about nothing. I just changed it to how my ear wanted to hear it.

 

So now I want to hear your voice and accent as well as his. I bet you sound a bit alike.

- Thoth (pronounce it as you please).