Is it possible to export the whole novel as one MS-WORD file?

[Fitch]

What I wanted to do seemed simple enough in concept; export my novel as one large properly formatted MS-WORD manuscript file with numbered chapters. How do I do this?

 

I didn't find this as an option in the user manual under export. I can't find it in any of the export menu structure, but I'm very new to this SW, and the Mac (for less than two weeks after decades of using a PC), so I might be missing something.

 

Thanks

Fitch

 

[Steve]

Hi Fitch,

 

The current version does export individual files in .doc or .docx format (though .rtf is the preferred format since there are a couple of issues with Apple's .doc and .docx converters). It doesn't stitch them together for you however.

This is a popular request from people coming from Scrivener users, and will probably be available in the not-too-distant future.

 

Note that Storyist does create ePub and Kindle editions from a collection of project files.

 

-Steve

[Fitch]

Hi Steve,

 

Sooner is better. IMO: That's the most critical missing feature.

 

I exported to Scrivener (which worked really well) and used that to generate the whole document as an MS-WORD file. I had to touch it up in WORD. It was still a lot faster than copy/pasting 48 chapters, but it seemed 'wrong' that I had to do it that way.

 

Fitch

[orrenm]

I don't think there's a right or wrong, it's all a matter of workflow.

 

When you create a Storyist manuscript, you can use Chapter Styles to create your chapters in the manuscript. The Project View then allows you to treat each chapter separately almost as if it were an actual separate file: move them around and reorganize them, the page numbering will change automatically, and so on. And then you can print and export the whole novel as one document. For many users familiar with Storyist, this is our workflow.

 

You're new to Storyist, and have a different workflow. There's nothing wrong with that. And it sounds like you use a workflow that Steve is aware of, and will accommodate with future development. That's great! But it's not "wrong" to do things another way, any more than it's "wrong" to do things the way you do. And you never know, you might try experimenting with other workflows and prefer them for future novels. I came to Storyist from Microsoft Word, and very much liked the way Storyist encouraged me to work.

 

Orren

[nen1000]

Maybe I'm missing something here (having never used Scrivener), but I find it quite easy to move an entire, formatted novel from Storyist to Word. There are instructions someone on this board (I think from one of the long-standing users), but it boils down to (a) exporting to RTF from Storyist, and then importing the RTF into an empty word document where styles have been set up to pick up the styles specified in the RTF. Once that word template is set up, it doesn't take more than a few second to get it into Word. Certainly faster than copying and pasting...

[marguerite]

See my comment in the Styles thread: it's easy as pie to move an entire formatted novel from Storyist to Word, so long as you are writing the novel as a single Storyist document. Fitch imported his file from Scrivener, where it was (unbeknownst to him, I'm guessing) stored as a zillion separate files, all of which are now revealed to be separate documents. So he has to get them into a single file before he can export them. The easiest way to do that is to merge the files in Scrivener, then reimport (once) into Storyist as a single document and work from there. I gave some basic instructions in that other thread.

Best,

M

[Fitch]

See my comment in the Styles thread: it's easy as pie to move an entire formatted novel from Storyist to Word, so long as you are writing the novel as a single Storyist document. Fitch imported his file from Scrivener, where it was (unbeknownst to him, I'm guessing) stored as a zillion separate files, all of which are now revealed to be separate documents. So he has to get them into a single file before he can export them. The easiest way to do that is to merge the files in Scrivener, then reimport (once) into Storyist as a single document and work from there. I gave some basic instructions in that other thread.

Best,

M

 

Hi Marguerite,

 

I want my document separated into chapters and scenes in Storyist. I worked that way in Scrivener and WriteWay. In both WriteWay and Scrivener I was able to export (compile in the case of Scrivener) the entire novel as one large RTF or MS-WORD file (both worked just fine). From Scrivener it was a bit of a mess, but from WriteWay it was complete, chapter numbered, and properly formatted. I had hoped that Storyist could do that. It can't, but Steve has indicated it's on his list of features to implement.

 

WriteWay would import and split the WORD file into chapters and scenes. In Scrivener it's harder, one has to use the split feature.

 

If I was going to write the whole novel as one file, I'd just use WORD with the chapters as outline headings. One of the big features of programs like Storyist, Scrivener, and WriteWay, is being able to see, organize, and manipulate the document as chapters and scenes, and have character and research data readily available in the same on-screen environment. With the vertical editor split writing from the outline is a piece of cake.

 

Fitch

[Steve]

Hi Fitch,

I want my document separated into chapters and scenes in Storyist.

So do I

This is actually how the templates are set up. The difference from your previous workflows is that this separation is usually accomplished in Storyist using heading-level styles and not by creating separate files. You can still keep notes/index cards on a per chapter or scene basis and you can still rearrange the chapters and scenes within the manuscript by dragging the outline items in the Project view or by dragging the cards in the storyboard view.

 

Using styles rather than a folder structure to specify hierarchy in your manuscript has a couple of benefits:

1. It is easy to apply consistent formatting using the stylesheet.
2. It is easier to import from or export to conventional word processors.
3. It doesn't impose an extra level of mental overhead to remember that a file is actually a scene and a folder is actually a chapter title.
4. You don't need a separate step to just see the manuscript. What you see is what you get.

This does seem to be a bit of a stumbling block for people coming from Scrivener (which doesn't support styles), and the ability to merge files and their associated style sheets is something I'd like to add to Storyist to ease the transition.

 

-Steve

[Fitch]

I don't know why this is so hard for me to get my head around.

 

I may be seeing the light. Let me keep this simple, for me, so I don't get lost in the complications.

 

First: Write or wrong, after 3 years of WriteWay and 6 months of Scrivener, my instinct was to use a folder for each chapter, a text file for each scene. Not because there were underlying file structure reasons, just because that looked familiar. In Scrivener they were folders, in WriteWay they looked and acted like folders. i don't know if they were or not. I didn't need to know to use WriteWay.

 

In both Scrivener and WriteWay, Chapters were on one hierarchical level in the equivalent to the 'Project' view, the scenes on a subordinate level under their chapter. Folder and text file look, in Storyist, like chapters and scenes in WriteWay and Scrivener.

 

However, with your explanation, and Marguerite's, (sorry to be so hard to help, but nowhere is this explained with the clarity that is in this thread, I think the light came on. I opened a new project with the novel template. Clearly, the entity that is labeled "My Manuscript" isn't a folder. A folder is blue. It isn't. It's a container of some sort, it looks like a little gray box, not like a text sheet. What is it?

 

A text sheet? Edited to add: It is a text sheet. I discovered that when I highlighted it and looked at it in outline mode. It way, it's a Text file.

 

If it is, then, based on it's behavior, the document management in Storyist is done with styles: Let me explain what I mean by that and then point out where I'm going wrong.

 

A chapter style in Storyist has properties like an outline heading in MS-WORD, a Chapter folder in Scrivener and a chapter entity (I don't know what it is) in WriteWay. If a Chapter Style is moved, it takes with it all subordinate text, and all subordinate sections and their text. I tried this in the Novel Template and it behaved that way.

 

I'm going to resist going further, to sections, until I get confirmation I'm on the right track.

 

If I am on the right track, I have questions about section styles. Can they be reformatted to look like a scene heading as long as they are still called the Section style? In other words, can I reformat the section style to be a paragraph that is left, zero indent, Courier, Bold, 12 pt and have it behave like a section as long as it's called a section break in the style sheet?

 

I may have discovered what headings are for - scene titles being one use. More experimentation is called for.

 

Thanks

Fitch

[Fitch]

I thought i was doing okay, tried to add a section in the outline and the application crashed. I was working in the Novel template as my laboratory.

 

Scratching head ...

 

Fitch

[Steve]

Hi Fitch,

 

Yes, the manuscript in the Novel template is just a (rich) text file. The chapter titles have a heading-level style named "Chapter Title" and the sections (scenes) of body text are separated by the section separator character (#).

 

You can export the manuscript as a .rtf file and open in it Word. If you view the outline in Word, you'll see the same chapter structure as you saw in Storyist, and all the style definitions are available to you.

 

On your crash: Obviously that shouldn't happen. If it happens again, please send the crash report to support@storyist.com. If I can reproduce the crash, I'll fix it for you right away.

 

-Steve

[Fitch]

Hi Fitch,

 

Yes, the manuscript in the Novel template is just a (rich) text file. The chapter titles have a heading-level style named "Chapter Title" and the sections (scenes) of body text are separated by the section separator character (#).

 

You can export the manuscript as a .rtf file and open in it Word. If you view the outline in Word, you'll see the same chapter structure as you saw in Storyist, and all the style definitions are available to you.

 

On your crash: Obviously that shouldn't happen. If it happens again, please send the crash report to support@storyist.com. If I can reproduce the crash, I'll fix it for you right away.

 

-Steve

 

Hi Steve,

 

Thanks for the suggestion. Exporting the file from the template to WORD to get the styles to match is a great idea. Then I can save that WORD file, with the styles that match Storyist exactly, as a Template to use for creating files that will import to Storyist, or I think I should be able to. Worth a try anyway.

 

The key to understanding Storyist, at least the Novel Template, which isn't well explained anyplace, is the fact that the document is managed by using styles. That styles are used to create the chapter/scene structure seen in Project. Now that I understand that, it's a lot clearer how to use it. That wasn't stated explicitly anyplace that I looked. But it's the vital bit of knowledge.

 

I've had two Storyist crashes, both times when I was messing with the outline in the right hand window of the vertical split with it set to outline mode and manuscript (text) in the left window. Both times I was messing with the structure of the outline - moving things around. I don't honestly know exactly what I was doing when it crashed. It just stopped working. When it does it again, I'll try to be a better witness.

 

Fitch

[marguerite]

Quoting Fitch, above:

I don't know why this is so hard for me to get my head around.

I may be seeing the light. Let me keep this simple, for me, so I don't get lost in the complications.

First: Write or wrong, after 3 years of WriteWay and 6 months of Scrivener, my instinct was to use a folder for each chapter, a text file for each scene. Not because there were underlying file structure reasons, just because that looked familiar. In Scrivener they were folders, in WriteWay they looked and acted like folders. i don't know if they were or not. I didn't need to know to use WriteWay.

In both Scrivener and WriteWay, Chapters were on one hierarchical level in the equivalent to the 'Project' view, the scenes on a subordinate level under their chapter. Folder and text file look, in Storyist, like chapters and scenes in WriteWay and Scrivener.

However, with your explanation, and Marguerite's, (sorry to be so hard to help, but nowhere is this explained with the clarity that is in this thread, I think the light came on. I opened a new project with the novel template. Clearly, the entity that is labeled "My Manuscript" isn't a folder. A folder is blue. It isn't. It's a container of some sort, it looks like a little gray box, not like a text sheet. What is it?

A text sheet? Edited to add: It is a text sheet. I discovered that when I highlighted it and looked at it in outline mode. It way, it's a Text file.

If it is, then, based on it's behavior, the document management in Storyist is done with styles: Let me explain what I mean by that and then point out where I'm going wrong.

A chapter style in Storyist has properties like an outline heading in MS-WORD, a Chapter folder in Scrivener and a chapter entity (I don't know what it is) in WriteWay. If a Chapter Style is moved, it takes with it all subordinate text, and all subordinate sections and their text. I tried this in the Novel Template and it behaved that way.

Yes, exactly. Maybe a visual will make the difference clearer. Here are three screen shots I created, two from my novel in progress The Swan Princess, written entirely in Storyist, and one from Desert Flower, which I wrote years ago in Word and just revised last summer for publication using Scrivener, then imported just now into Storyist for this example.

SPsetup1.png shows the manuscript (1 big file) plus notes (each in its own file). You can see the icons for text and notes are different and the formatting in the text file is set to Times New Roman 12.

SPsetup2.png shows a second manuscript in the same project, currently empty, which I use for holding text that I may want to reuse some day. It is also one big file, but it uses the default Courier 12 formatting because I haven't bothered to reset it.

DFsetup.png is the file imported from Scrivener. It should look familiar, with folders containing sections. You can see by comparing the icons used for the sections with the icons used for the notes in Swan Princess that these sections are separate files.

By the way, chapters use to display as folders in Storyist, too, but Steve changed it because it made it even harder for people coming in from Scrivener to understand that the pieces of their document were separate files. So the gray container look is to emphasize that this is one file, even though you can move the chapters and sections around just as if they were separate.

Does that help?

Best,

M

[Fitch]

Hi Marguerite,

 

Thanks for the pictures and description. They help. I tried to like your post, but it said I'd exceeded my quota of positive comments. Since that was my first 'like' I have to wonder what the criteria is.

 

The Scrivener import does indeed look familiar. That is how my novel looked when this thread started.

 

I modified the styles in the Novel Template to add a Section Header style. Then saved it as a custom template in Storyist. I exported the manuscript text in the modified Novel Template to an RTF file, then imported it into MS-WORD. It took me about forever but I managed to capture the styles in word and then modify them to get rid of the "WORD-KNOWS-BEST" changes it kept making to them. I saved the document with those styles as a WORD Template.

 

Next, I exported my novel to one large, rather messy, RTF file through Scrivener using the compile process (I'm not a fan of the Scrivener User Interface). Spent most of the day getting the WORD file formatted and the styles that were based on Storyist applied to all the appropriate paragraphs. It was not difficult, just drudgery. While I was at it I numbered the chapters.

 

Then I opened a new project in Storyist. I tried several ways to import. First I tried to import it into the manuscript document itself. That failed spectacularly. The library of styles changed to some mysterious collection with a default of Helvetica and lots of headlines but not the styles I though I had. Everything in my imported file was body text.

 

Deleted it and started again. This time with my reformatted novel saved as a .docx document. Fail. It looked even worse and still had the wrong style list.

 

Went up stairs for a cup of coffee and went for a three mile attitude adjustment walk.

 

When I returned, I deleted the whole manuscript part of the newly opened project and imported my RTF file to the entity labeled 'Project'. That word a heck of a lot better. I actually got chapters and # for sections to show in project for the first time. Coincidentally, the list of styles was also correct. Why this didn't happen when I imported to the Manuscript that I took the styles from is a huge mystery.

 

So I get the contents of the Chapter Title paragraph to show in the Project window but only the # for sections. My next activity is to figure out what I have to do to have the section show up as a meaningful heading in the list in Project as well as to have it show up slightly indented from the Chapter in the Project list, assuming that's possible.

 

I have experimented with formatting my section headings as section separators, after import, and that places that sentence in the Project listing. I need to see if I can do that in the RTF file and still have it import properly.

 

Fitch

[Steve]

Hi Fitch,

Next, I exported my novel to one large, rather messy, RTF file through Scrivener using the compile process (I'm not a fan of the Scrivener User Interface). Spent most of the day getting the WORD file formatted and the styles that were based on Storyist applied to all the appropriate paragraphs. It was not difficult, just drudgery. While I was at it I numbered the chapters.

Then I opened a new project in Storyist. I tried several ways to import. First I tried to import it into the manuscript document itself. That failed spectacularly. The library of styles changed to some mysterious collection with a default of Helvetica and lots of headlines but not the styles I though I had. Everything in my imported file was body text.

Deleted it and started again. This time with my reformatted novel saved as a .docx document. Fail. It looked even worse and still had the wrong style list.

It sounds like you were importing a .doc or .docx file.

The easiest way to import your work is to export it from Word as an RTF file and then drag it to the Project view in a Storyist document.

RTF is preferred over .doc or .docx because Storyist can get stylesheets, headers, and footers from RTF, but not from .doc or .docx. Storyist uses Apple's converters for the last two file types, and these converters don't provide that information.

My next activity is to figure out what I have to do to have the section show up as a meaningful heading in the list in Project as well as to have it show up slightly indented from the Chapter in the Project list, assuming that's possible.

This should be the default. You can check by opening your text file in Storyist, viewing the File Info inspector (View > Inspector > File Info), and making sure the "Include body text elements" checkbox is checked.

-Steve

[Fitch]

Hi Steve,

 

I dragged the file in from Finder, as suggested. Doesn't make any difference, drag/import, the result is the same.

 

The body text bullet is and was checked. Checked, unchecked, makes no difference.

 

I reformatted the rtf file to have the section separator paragraph to include the text I wanted as a section header instead of the # symbol. That text showed up in the project view, but it needs to be indented from the chapter headings in the project view or it's very confusing to look at, especially with the microscopic default text size. (On my 5K monitor it measures 0.051" tall). I can read it, but the indent would really help.

 

OS X applications seem to have an inordinate fixation on teeny tiny text. Storyist isn't the only one. But it's the one I look at the most, at least at the moment. I can use one application of Command + to make this forum big enough to be pleasant to look at.

 

Fitch

[Steve]

Hi Fitch,

 

I dragged the file in from Finder, as suggested. Doesn't make any difference, drag/import, the result is the same.

Was it a .rtf file, and .doc file, or a .docx file?

 

-Steve

[Steve]

Hi Fitch,

I reformatted the rtf file to have the section separator paragraph to include the text I wanted as a section header instead of the # symbol.

The section separator is necessary between body text sections to tell Storyist where one body text section ends and the other begins.

 

If you want the section title to appear as a heading in your manuscript (they're not usually included in a standard novel manuscript), do this:

1. Create a new style called something like "Section Title."
2. Set the style's heading level to Heading 2.
3. Type the section title when starting a new section and apply the new style.

You'll probably want to turn off "Include body text elements" since your sections are now delimited by a heading-level style.

 

-Steve

[Fitch]

Hi Fitch,

 

The section separator is necessary between body text sections to tell Storyist where one body text section ends and the other begins.

 

If you want the section title to appear as a heading in your manuscript (they're not usually included in a standard novel manuscript), do this:

1. Create a new style called something like "Section Title."
2. Set the style's heading level to Heading 2.
3. Type the section title when starting a new section and apply the new style.

You'll probably want to turn off "Include body text elements" since your sections are now delimited by a heading-level style.

 

-Steve

Hi Steve,

 

I got the indent I wanted in the Project view. It makes it much easier for these old eyes.

 

I changed the style for my modified (all text, no # symbol) section separators from Heading level 1 to Heading level 2. Now they are very easy to see in the Project view and format as desired in the manuscript. It appears they still separate the body text in the sections.

 

I now have the whole thing in a single text file. When I split vertically and switch outline mode in one of the windows, I get the word count totals you mentioned. I am also seeing a very nice view in the Project window with all my section headers showing as indented text since I formatted them as heading level 2.

 

The document should now be much easier to export since it's all in one text file.

 

Fitch