The Apple Tablet Event?

[Joolissa]

that's true..... if I could I'd of course have one of everything in every version.

 

Except perhaps: http://www.mervisdiamond.com/tacori-diamonds

... that's just silly

[Steve E]

that's true..... if I could I'd of course have one of everything in every version.

 

Except perhaps: http://www.mervisdiamond.com/tacori-diamonds

... that's just silly

Twenty thousand dollars for a diamond-encrusted iPad? That's beyond silly, especially since it's only 11.43 carats (2.286 grams) of diamond chips.

 

Some people just have too much money.

- Thoth.

[Joolissa]

Perhaps we could convince them to donate some to our band of Storyist Merry Writers?

[Steve E]

Perhaps we could convince them to donate some to our band of Storyist Merry Writers?

And with each $20K donation they get a grime-encrusted first-generation iPod.

 

Writing Merrily.

- Thoth.

[marguerite]

And with each $20K donation they get a grime-encrusted first-generation iPod.

 

Writing Merrily.

- Thoth.

I'd be happy to throw in a bunch of overmuffins for their trouble—any flavor they like. They could even hold the diamonds and just send me a free iPad.

M

[orrenm]

One bloggers take on the iPad, Tablets, and the future of the Kindle. I don't agree with everything he suggests (for example, I'm thinking that there will never be an "iPad mini"—that's called an iPod Touch) but I think he's makes a lot of sense.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=12419&tag=nl.e539

 

Orren

[marguerite]

One bloggers take on the iPad, Tablets, and the future of the Kindle. I don't agree with everything he suggests (for example, I'm thinking that there will never be an "iPad mini"—that's called an iPod Touch) but I think he's makes a lot of sense.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=12419&tag=nl.e539

 

Orren

Yes, thanks for that link. I agree that the iPad mini would be absurd (the whole point of the iPad is that it's not mini). And that the iPad is, in effect, the Kindle 3 and Amazon.com knows it: hence Kindle for Mac and Kindle for iPad. (They can still compete with Apple's iBookstore on price, so if they sell a ton of books, why does it make sense for them to compete in hardware?)

 

And since I'm commenting on this thread, I'll add a response to Julie G's post about next generations. I too think the time to buy is whenever the hardware/software contains the features that are essential to you. I don't want to take pictures with my iPad; I'd like to read books and my own work and other writers' work (with the option to annotate those last two categories), and I'd like to read books from as many different sellers as possible so that I can shop for the best price. So the questions for me are how heavy the iPad is, what typing on it is like, what Pages on the iPad is like, etc. For someone else the calculus will be quite different.

 

The music/movies features look pretty cool; ditto calendars and contacts. But those are secondary benefits for me. Looking stuff up on the Internet or being able to check in on the forums once in a while—those are my Kindle "kill" features. (You're supposed to be able to do both those things on the Kindle, actually, but just try it. No sooner do I get to the post I want to read than the machine resets itself and forgets that Google ever existed.) And I have to admit, even if eInk is supposed to be easier on the eyes, I hate that gray on gray screen!

 

Gotta go cook,

M

[Joolissa]

I concede the point about the generations.

 

Ebooks, ebooks.... it's becoming all about these ebooks. I have been avoiding them and I'm not a fan (yet). I still would prefer to buy a CD than buy the album off of itunes. I want the CD booklet and the CD itself. In the same way, I want the actual book itself... cover art... pages to feel and smell, not to mention that short of a losing it or someone stealing my book, it can't be taken from me the way an ebook can (has this changed yet?). I can also lend a physical book to a friend, which isn't exactly a feature of e-books currently. Also, if I'm going to pay $10-20 for downloading an ebook I'm going to go to the store and have a look at the physical one, see if I like it, and then buy the physical book (especially if it's more expensive to buy the ebook). The fact that free previews are making their way into the scene are wearing away at the see it before you buy it factor. I do like the fact that ebooks take up only the amount of shelf space as the reader does. That is a plus, though shelves full of books have a wonderful quality about them. Still, ebooks haven't made a convert of me yet. I would however, love e-books if Authors saw more $$ from them. We'll see. Anyone else agree? Disagree?

 

I'm looking for an ebook library to appear.... I have no idea how THAT would work (perhaps the library buys copies, then lends them out with an expiration date somehow? like a software trial?)... but I I'd love it if I could rent them from an e-library.

 

What is everyone else's opinion on the actual ebooks? Things you like, dislike? We've covered some of it and the various readers... but perhaps not the actual books themselves.

[Steve E]

...In the same way, I want the actual book itself... cover art... pages to feel and smell, not to mention that short of a losing it or someone stealing my book, it can't be taken from me the way an ebook can ... shelves full of books have a wonderful quality about them...

I know exactly what you mean and agree wholeheartedly. There is just something about a physical book, beyond its content, that simply isn't duplicated in an e-book. But it is a separate quality created by the book's designer and not the author. Perhaps if an e-book reader could be designed to look like a really good-looking book...***sign*** But then what reason would there be to have an entire cabinet of them?

 

I'm looking for an ebook library to appear.... I have no idea how THAT would work (perhaps the library buys copies, then lends them out with an expiration date somehow? like a software trial?)... but I I'd love it if I could rent them from an e-library.

This is an interesting concept. Perhaps Amazon could rent a book, thru the Kindle, at a penny a day. Perhaps the Public Library web site could do it for e-readers in some standard format.

 

What is everyone else's opinion on the actual ebooks? Things you like, dislike? We've covered some of it and the various readers... but perhaps not the actual books themselves.

Good print on good paper is still easier to read than any e-book I've ever seen. I bought the SONY e-reader (first generation) way back when it used diskettes. Sucked. Excuse me: sucé (pardon my French). It's better now but it's still not a book. A good book is art. E-readers are still just technology with the potential of one day becoming art. They are not there yet.

 

Ne parler que pour moi-même.

- Thoth.

[orrenm]

I still would prefer to buy a CD than buy the album off of itunes. I want the CD booklet and the CD itself.

 

God bless you! My co-producer/co-mixer/art director for Ember After and I spent months agonizing over the artwork for the CD booklet, over what to include in it (lyrics, liner notes, essays, etc). Only to have 70% of our sales be digital. Crazy kids and their music listening machines...

 

I would however, love e-books if Authors saw more $$ from them.

 

Actually, many publishers do offer authors a higher royalty percentage on eBooks. So that's already happening.

 

What is everyone else's opinion on the actual ebooks? Things you like, dislike? We've covered some of it and the various readers... but perhaps not the actual books themselves.

 

So far, I'm a paper-book person myself. I don't own an eReader, and I don't want one. If I get an iPad, the primary reason would as a have-the-internet-available-on-the-couch-without-opening-a-laptop device; the eReader aspect is secondary. But then, I like really durable, collector's item style leatherbound books; clearly, most of my books are not that.

 

As an author, however, I want to deliver my books in any format a reader would like to read them in, and if that means eBooks, I'll give them an eBook!

 

Orren

[Joolissa]

Agreed about I'd give my readers my book in any format they wanted it in. Haha!

 

Mmm... nicely bound books... yay... all my books are in boxes right now from moving. *cries* .. I want to read The Last Unicorn again....

 

Part of my aversion to digital content is I think it's too expensive, especially when I would pay less or the same to get the book or artwork and CD. Digital music/ebooks seem like candy jars full of jelly beans. You want to buy by the scoop, but instead of it being $5 a scoop it's $1+ per bean. It is probably a perceived value vs. actual value thing. When I buy a CD or book, I get a physical product that I'm buying that has actual value to me. A file on my computer doesn't yet have that value in my brain. Which is also why I like having software on discs and in boxes, though that is becoming less common too.

 

I could probably get my brain to accept the value of a digital music file if I could read a good article on the cost of an album vs the cost of a digital album and how much goes to the artist of both. The same goes for e-books. To me it seems much cheaper to put out an e-book than it does to print a physical book, therefore I want that to be reflected in the price. The same for music. But, as this thread has mentioned, I am mostly incorrect in this thinking.. as the costs of editors and stuff is still there. AND since, as you say, the authors/artists are at least starting to make more $$ from e-books, then I'm prepared to look on them more kindly.

 

I do think if the price for digital stuff was lower, they'd sell more of it to begin with. I'd sure buy a lot more than I do now if the price was lower. (I think I've bought a total of .... maybe... 5 songs and 2 book/stories on "tape" digitally... and 1 $2 ebook I couldn't get anywhere but in ebook form.) I once read an argument for 10 cent songs and that it would kill piracy. I would love that. I'd buy tons of music that way and check out a lot more artists instead of just buying what I already know I will like and/or have heard previously. But, I am not a musician and I'm sure that a price like that would put most everyone out of business. If it were my published book out there for 10 cents and I'd maybe see a penny per copy, I wouldn't be too happy. I think there should be a happy medium. Or perhaps I'm wrong completely and they're priced as much or more than physical copies for a good reason.

[orrenm]

I want to read The Last Unicorn again....

 

My wife made me buy the DVD of the cartoon of that and watch it. I think she's prepping me for having kids in the future.

 

When I buy a CD or book, I get a physical product that I'm buying that has actual value to me.

 

But there is a big difference between a CD or a book and their electronic versions:

* When you buy a CD, you're not paying for a piece of plastic. Unlike a vinyl record in which the music is part of the grooves, there is nothing inherent in the production of that piece of plastic that is musical. The music on the CD itself is digital. You're listening to zeros and ones that are decoded by a computer chip. Whether those zeros and ones are delivered on a piece of round plastic, in a portable hard drive, or over the Internet, there is no difference in the actual content itself (barring compression, of course, but that's a whole different issue).

 

* When you buy a book, you are buying an "analog" physical material that itself is the product. There is actual writing on the pages, that you can read without decoding. In other words, the book has intrinsic literary value, the CD itself does not, only the digital material on it does.

 

Point being, it's much easier to give up CDs than books.

 

To me it seems much cheaper to put out an e-book than it does to print a physical book, therefore I want that to be reflected in the price. The same for music. But, as this thread has mentioned, I am mostly incorrect in this thinking.. as the costs of editors and stuff is still there. AND since, as you say, the authors/artists are at least starting to make more $$ from e-books, then I'm prepared to look on them more kindly.

 

Intuitively, it seems easier to explore the depths of the ocean than it does outer space, right? And yet...it's not. Go figure. I guess intuition isn't always right.

 

I do think if the price for digital stuff was lower, they'd sell more of it to begin with.

 

I've taken enough marketing to know that's not necessarily true (Thoth, if you were in wall street, maybe you know of what I speak too). There are magic price points at which more will buy, but it's not automatic. Moreover, sometimes a lower price will not spur sales, it will just lower profits. For example, let's say that someone writes a science-fantasy-goth-horror-porn book in which female aliens come to earth looking like medieval faeries and then rape and eviscerate men, then eat babies to celebrate. The book becomes known for it's exceptionally graphic sex, over the top nauseating gore, yet with enough "world building" to give it a tiny bit of literary merit. A book like this has a very limited audience—and that limited audience probably gobbles up every book in the tiny genre. If the writer charges $10 for this eBook or $1 for this eBook, the same 10,000 will buy the book. Now the writer can price himself (the writer is male, no self-respecting woman could write this drivel ) out of the market—maybe for $20, he'll sell fewer—but even selling it cheap, he'll never find more people who will be interested in that.

 

I'd sure buy a lot more than I do now if the price was lower.

 

Agreed—I buy a lot more Amazon MP3s at $2.99 - $4.99 than full price. But as above, I'm not going to buy classical flute solo performance MP3s at any price, because I'm just not interested. And I doubt you'd buy a genre you disliked. So pricing is more fluid than "one size fits all."

 

I once read an argument for 10 cent songs and that it would kill piracy.

 

Anyone who says they have a plan to "kill piracy" is an idiot. Lots of people simply feel "if it's digital, it's free." One of my good friends, someone who's helped film my band in clubs, helped finance recording sessions, etc. and knows exactly how much money is involved, hasn't bought an album in years, just gets it from BitTorrent. "But I pay to see the shows," he tells me. There are lots of people like him. Not to mention kids who torrent everything and don't even listen to it, just using it to trade for games, etc.

 

On the flip side, anyone who says piracy is "the problem" is even a bigger idiot. For 90% of artists, the problem isn't piracy, it's obscurity. For 1% of artists, they are so rich, it doesn't matter if they are ripped off, they still sell enough to retire. For that 9% that sells just enough to scrape by piracy can really hurt them. DRM is a waste of time. It only stops the "casual copiers"—and they buy stuff anyway. The real pirates will keep pirating. And yes, I say this as an author who's books have been pirated, and a musician who's music has been pirated. And an AE for a publisher who thankfully doesn't believe in DRM unless required by the retailer.

 

Or perhaps I'm wrong completely and they're priced as much or more than physical copies for a good reason.

 

Conceptually I think you are right—the pricing isn't "right" yet. But it's not clear what the correct price should be. The one thing I like about Apple's "Agency" model is that the pricing can be dynamic, and it's in the hands of the publisher. With Amazon, they set the Kindle price (for major publishers) and they set it based on what they think will keep their monopoly. In other words, the agency model allows experimentation, and I think that's important. Being in the "biz" my gut feeling is that eBooks should probably be around 50% cheaper than the print copy. As other posts have pointed out, that still gives the company money for editors, professionals, etc. while recognizing that there is no distribution chain. So if a $29.99 hardcover sells at Barnes & Noble $22-$25, the eBook should be about $11-$15 or so. If the book is available as a $7.99 paperback, the eBook should be about $5. It may take a very long time for the price experimentation to end, but I think that might be close to where things level out over the years.

 

That's major publishers, of course. If you self-publish, you can set your book at anything you want.

 

Orren

[Joolissa]

That whole post was very well said. Kudos to you. By the way, I'm Jules... I believe you joined while I was away. Welcome!

 

My wife made me buy the DVD of the cartoon of that and watch it. I think she's prepping me for having kids in the future.

 

The movie is fun and well done, but the book... oh.... the book is a masterpiece in my opinion. Beagle has one of the most beautiful and unique styles I've read. His descriptions are simply splendid. He likens things to something you'd never have thought of, but it makes perfect sense and it's like looking at a really good painting. It may possibly be my favorite book ever (children's books from my childhood aside) or if I can't pick, definitely one of the top few.

 

But there is a big difference between a CD or a book and their electronic versions:

* When you buy a CD, you're not paying for a piece of plastic. Unlike a vinyl record in which the music is part of the grooves, there is nothing inherent in the production of that piece of plastic that is musical. The music on the CD itself is digital. You're listening to zeros and ones that are decoded by a computer chip. Whether those zeros and ones are delivered on a piece of round plastic, in a portable hard drive, or over the Internet, there is no difference in the actual content itself (barring compression, of course, but that's a whole different issue).

 

* When you buy a book, you are buying an "analog" physical material that itself is the product. There is actual writing on the pages, that you can read without decoding. In other words, the book has intrinsic literary value, the CD itself does not, only the digital material on it does.

 

Point being, it's much easier to give up CDs than books.

 

Hmm.. I see your point.... I really see your point when I'm making my own mix CD.. But, it is harder for me to see your point when you hand me a CD with a nice booklet or case (think Regina Spektor or A Fine Frenzy case, paper not plastic, with art on it) and with a CD that's printed with artwork... to me that's like a book... It's hard for me to give that up... If I don't like the artist much it's easier, but that's the same with a book I don't like. Actually... I'm more likely to get rid of a book I didn't like vs a CD I'm not thrilled with.

 

My mind does tend to work in an odd backwards way sometimes. I do see your point though.

 

I've taken enough marketing to know that's not necessarily true (Thoth, if you were in wall street, maybe you know of what I speak too). There are magic price points at which more will buy, but it's not automatic. Moreover, sometimes a lower price will not spur sales, it will just lower profits. For example, let's say that someone writes a science-fantasy-goth-horror-porn book in which female aliens come to earth looking like medieval faeries and then rape and eviscerate men, then eat babies to celebrate. The book becomes known for it's exceptionally graphic sex, over the top nauseating gore, yet with enough "world building" to give it a tiny bit of literary merit. A book like this has a very limited audience—and that limited audience probably gobbles up every book in the tiny genre. If the writer charges $10 for this eBook or $1 for this eBook, the same 10,000 will buy the book. Now the writer can price himself (the writer is male, no self-respecting woman could write this drivel ) out of the market—maybe for $20, he'll sell fewer—but even selling it cheap, he'll never find more people who will be interested in that.

 

Agreed—I buy a lot more Amazon MP3s at $2.99 - $4.99 than full price. But as above, I'm not going to buy classical flute solo performance MP3s at any price, because I'm just not interested. And I doubt you'd buy a genre you disliked. So pricing is more fluid than "one size fits all."

 

Ah, you make another splendid point.... I failed to consider genres and limited customer bases... very true. I was mainly thinking of mainstream stuff.

 

Anyone who says they have a plan to "kill piracy" is an idiot. Lots of people simply feel "if it's digital, it's free." One of my good friends, someone who's helped film my band in clubs, helped finance recording sessions, etc. and knows exactly how much money is involved, hasn't bought an album in years, just gets it from BitTorrent. "But I pay to see the shows," he tells me. There are lots of people like him. Not to mention kids who torrent everything and don't even listen to it, just using it to trade for games, etc.

 

On the flip side, anyone who says piracy is "the problem" is even a bigger idiot. For 90% of artists, the problem isn't piracy, it's obscurity. For 1% of artists, they are so rich, it doesn't matter if they are ripped off, they still sell enough to retire. For that 9% that sells just enough to scrape by piracy can really hurt them. DRM is a waste of time. It only stops the "casual copiers"—and they buy stuff anyway. The real pirates will keep pirating. And yes, I say this as an author who's books have been pirated, and a musician who's music has been pirated. And an AE for a publisher who thankfully doesn't believe in DRM unless required by the retailer.

 

Ah yes... I have more experience in the digital=free in the art theft world than the music theft world... I'm waiting for my brain to port the thinking from one to the other. Eventually it will get there....

 

I am curious as to how one trades music for games???? I've never heard of that.

 

Conceptually I think you are right—the pricing isn't "right" yet. But it's not clear what the correct price should be. The one thing I like about Apple's "Agency" model is that the pricing can be dynamic, and it's in the hands of the publisher. With Amazon, they set the Kindle price (for major publishers) and they set it based on what they think will keep their monopoly. In other words, the agency model allows experimentation, and I think that's important. Being in the "biz" my gut feeling is that eBooks should probably be around 50% cheaper than the print copy. As other posts have pointed out, that still gives the company money for editors, professionals, etc. while recognizing that there is no distribution chain. So if a $29.99 hardcover sells at Barnes & Noble $22-$25, the eBook should be about $11-$15 or so. If the book is available as a $7.99 paperback, the eBook should be about $5. It may take a very long time for the price experimentation to end, but I think that might be close to where things level out over the years.

 

I whole heartedly agree! If that's the way they were priced, especially with the author getting more, I'd overlook some of their other faults (the e-books, not the authors) and buy a few. I guess I will ride the waves of experimentation with the rest of the world.

 

Ah if only it was a perfect world eh? Of course, a pirates perfect world and an artists perfect world are entirely different things.

[orrenm]

That whole post was very well said. Kudos to you. By the way, I'm Jules... I believe you joined while I was away. Welcome!

 

Thank you, and hi Jules! I'm Orren. Former teacher, current editor, writer, and musician. And I believe the only Southern Californian here, but Steve is in Northern California if I'm not mistaken.

 

 

 

The movie is fun and well done, but the book... oh.... the book is a masterpiece in my opinion.

 

You know, I believe that the author is a guest this year at San Diego ComicCon, which I'll be attending.

 

 

 

Hmm.. I see your point.... I really see your point when I'm making my own mix CD.. But, it is harder for me to see your point when you hand me a CD with a nice booklet or case (think Regina Spektor or A Fine Frenzy case, paper not plastic, with art on it) and with a CD that's printed with artwork... to me that's like a book... It's hard for me to give that up..

 

But that's the point—the value is the art, not the plastic. If you went to the store and purchased the booklet in a Jewel case with a download code, it would the the same thing. In fact the UK band Portishead sold a boxed set for their latest album that had all sorts of art and books and the like, and the music was on a USB stick, along with other imagery.

 

 

I am curious as to how one trades music for games???? I've never heard of that.

 

The way some pirate sites work is how much material you are allowed to download depends on how many credits you've earned by uploading. So kids will acquire as much content as they can—music, eBooks, porn, software, anything—just so they can upload it to the pirate site and build up credits. Then, they use their credits to download what they really want.

 

Ah if only it was a perfect world eh? Of course, a pirates perfect world and an artists perfect world are entirely different things.

 

Yup.

 

Take care,

Orren

[marguerite]

Have to come back and read this at length, as there are various interesting points being floated here. But you may be interested in these links, which are fairly on topic, the topic being iPad/Kindle/ebooks. BTW, some libraries already lend ebooks, mostly in ePub format. The New York Public Library even has a pilot program, I think, although don't quote me on that.

 

Effect of iPad on Kindle pricing

What it costs to produce an ebook versus a printed book (you don't save as much as you might think)

 

I love printed books, too, but I have no more space for them! ebooks are a reasonable alternative/supplement, although they still need work. But they are ugly, so far, as JG notes. The iPad will improve that a bit, and I'm all for it. But I particularly like digital for the "throwaways" (drafts of my own and other people's work, books I read once from beginning to end and then set aside, etc.). I don't want to give up all my printed books, just pare them back a bit.

 

BTW, many of the books available through the Internet Archive and Project Gutenberg and the like are free. My Kindle has already paid for itself in that sense. But it's not equally good for everything.

Best,

M

[Steve E]

Thanks for the links, M.

 

I've always imagined e-book costs breaking down somewhat differently. I mean, why should the cost of editing and design be different? Why should the cost of marketing be different? (It is, but why?) And is the cost of magnetic/optical storage really zero? Maintaining those servers 24/7 costs significant money. Just because it comes out of the I.T. budget doesn't mean it isn't real. The profit from the books still pays for it. Yes?

 

As for the NYPL e-book program. Click here.

- Thoth.

[orrenm]

I've always imagined e-book costs breaking down somewhat differently.

 

I am very skeptical of these numbers. I think they are very different for different publishers/books/print runs/freelance designers/etc. I can tell you that they don't ring true for the books (physical or e- ) that my company publishes, and we're the 6th largest textbook publisher in the US, hardly a boutique enterprise.

 

I mean, why should the cost of editing and design be different?

 

The costs might be slightly different for design (using RGB vs. CMYK color), but editing is identical.

 

Why should the cost of marketing be different? (It is, but why?)

 

Because the writer wanted them to be? Seriously, I have a very hard time seeing where these numbers came from. I imagine the writer was thinking "you advertise a physical book in print which is more expensive than advertising an eBook online" but that's bunk, you advertise both everywhere. The only real difference I can imagine is if a company pays for "endcaps" in stores for books, and that expense isn't required for eBooks (although Amazon does charge to put a publisher's books on their front page, etc). The thing is, the article has a 22% difference between physical and eBook marketing! Trust me, I work very closely with our marketing manager, and there is no fraking way that 22% of our marketing budget is endcaps! I'd say that maybe 10% at most is spent that way...I can't imagine other differences in marketing filling another 12%. Really, I'd put the difference as maybe 10%—and as more marketing goes online, it will go online for both physical and ebooks, so there still won't be a significant difference.

 

And is the cost of magnetic/optical storage really zero? Maintaining those servers 24/7 costs significant money. Just because it comes out of the I.T. budget doesn't mean it isn't real. The profit from the books still pays for it. Yes?

 

Exactly. A publisher may not have the extensive storage costs of Apple/Amazon/other e-retailers, but they still have to keep electronic "masters" of all their data. We have archives of terabytes and terabytes of data, all on backup unloaded drives. The archiving costs money, the space costs money, and of course retrieving something from the archives costs money.

 

Also, the author puts "production" and "shipping" in there as well (the category is "production, storage, and shipping"). In this case, "production" for an ebook doesn't mean a physical print run, but it means paying someone's salary to run conversion software, and for many publishing companies it means paying for DRM. Also, "shipping" would include the internet connection through which eBooks are delivered to e-retailers.

 

The royalties are also out of whack, IMO. Royalties are nearly always based on the wholesale price, not the retail price. So this author places the hardcover royalties at 30% and eBook royalties at 35% of wholesale. This is...absolutely ludicrous. Maybe billion-dollar authors get that kind of royalty rate, but we're talking about a dozen authors on the planet. I have a hard time imagining that even superstar authors on a major publisher's roster would not get 30%—although the bump for eBooks is accurate.

 

I appreciate what this author tries to do, but my guess is that the author may have gotten numbers from one or maybe two independent presses that are not indicative of industry norms, and used those figures as "averages" for the sake of argument.

 

Orren

[marguerite]

Good points all. Also the costs don't take into account that the Kindle is a transitional device. Even for the iPad, with its multiple fonts, layout and design will be factors in production (as well as substantive editing and line editing/proofreading). The more e-books come to resemble physical books, the more important design will be. Right now, to all intents and purposes, you can't design for the Kindle, except in the most rudimentary way. But that's one reason, I think, why e-books still lag behind print books (not the only reason, by any means, but one): physical books are more aesthetically pleasing—visually, tactilely, and even for their weight in your hands.

 

One more advantage of print books that I've come to appreciate after owning a Kindle (and so far this applies to all e-books): you can pick up a print book and flip through it. For a novel, this is no great shakes, but suppose you're looking at a reference book or a travelogue, and you just want to know whether a particular topic is covered? If you're lucky, the e-book has a table of contents (although a lot of them just say "Chapter 1," "Chapter 2," etc.). You can search it, if you happen to know exactly which term the author uses. But you can't skim it, and very few e-books have indices. So e-books are really best suited to works you want to read from beginning to end.

Best,

M

[Joolissa]

We've discussed story books mostly, but what about coffee table books or instructional books or craft books? Is an ebook going to give them "competition" too? I can't imagine using an ebook for a crafts book, art book, photography book, or any other image heavy book. Now, with the iPad, maybe I can, but still, I bought an absolutely gorgeous book of photographs of America's endangered animals today and I think the experience of having that book in my hands would completely outweigh any advantage of an ebook of it.

 

What about books that pair images and text? I've got the plan/idea to pair my poetry with my art/photography and in some cases, an image would be on a mirroring page to the text. With an ebook on a reader that displays a single page at a time, it would lose something. Can most ereaders display 2 pages at a time if you want them to? If not, do you think we'll see this as an option as the market develops?

 

Itunes/Amazon/Stores are putting out more and more exclusive music albums (special bonus songs etc.), so does think we'll see "exclusive" ebooks? Are there some already? It wouldn't surprise me to see some ebook from one store have exclusive content vs another store, or even the ebook vs the printed book.

 

Thoroughly enjoying this thread

- J

[orrenm]

What about coffee table books ... craft books? Is an ebook going to give them "competition" too?

 

My opinion? No. (see below for my opinion on instructional books).

 

What about books that pair images and text?

 

Depends on the sort of book. I don't think eBooks will ever be ideal for "fine art" books, in which the art itself is the product. However, the technical tutorials that I write pair text with screenshots, etc. and color eReaders will be great for that. Many instructional guides for doing tech-related stuff are perfect for tablets.

 

Can most ereaders display 2 pages at a time if you want them to? If not, do you think we'll see this as an option as the market develops?

 

eReaders, no. Tablet computers, yes. I think ultimately eReaders will go away, the same way that PDAs went away, replaced by smartphones.

 

, so does think we'll see "exclusive" ebooks? Are there some already?

 

Lots of exclusive eBooks. See http://www.smashwords.com - basically, everyone who has written a novel but can afford to print it can sell their own eBook, just as any band can record a song and sell it as an mp3. I'm sure major writers have written short stories, etc. and only released them electronically, more out of convenience than anything else.

 

BTW—went to your website, gorgeous pictures!

 

Orren

[Joolissa]

BTW—went to your website, gorgeous pictures!

Orren

 

Aww.. thanks!

 

 

Do you think we will also see exclusive content in an ebook that is also available in print or in multiple ebook stores? In the way that itunes offers an exclusive track along with an album, that isn't offered on the CD or on the Amazon MP3 album. I could imagine an Author writing an exclusive forward or something for iBooks, but not Amazon, or, if it was a book of patterns for knitting, an exclusive pattern, things like that. Do the publisher/store contracts allow for that sort of thing? Or does that violate some such thing similar to how Amazon(?) says their price cannot be higher than any other place's price?

 

If people haven't guessed already, I ask alot of questions. Most of my friends are annoyed by this, hopefully I won't pester all of you guys into oblivion!

- Jules

[orrenm]

Do you think we will also see exclusive content in an ebook that is also available in print or in multiple ebook stores? In the way that itunes offers an exclusive track along with an album, that isn't offered on the CD or on the Amazon MP3 album.

 

Here's a little "inside baseball" for you:

 

Every version of a book gets a new ISBN number. The result is, the sales are tallied separately, not together. The more versions, the more ISBN's people need to tally to determine final sales. Does this matter for you or me? No.

 

For the big authors, however, it means that the bestseller lists have different versions of the same book, and major publishers may not like that. In the music industry, it's not as big a deal because sales are so far down they just want to sell anything at all, nobody cares about the charts. Books aren't down that much yet, and publishers still care about the charts.

 

So I'm sure there will be some exclusive stuff, but not nearly as prevalent as with records. The music industry is desperate to drive you to iTunes or Amazon so that you'll buy instead of steal. The publishing world isn't that desperate, at least yet.

 

Orren

[Steve E]

Here's a little "inside forum" for you.

Our modest little iPad thread has had well over 1300 views so far. Not too bad.

Jules, keep asking those questions. (I think Orren likes it )

 

"Keep plucking that chicken." - Ernie Anastos

- Thoth.

[Joolissa]

Here's a little "inside baseball" for you:

 

Every version of a book gets a new ISBN number. The result is, the sales are tallied separately, not together. The more versions, the more ISBN's people need to tally to determine final sales. Does this matter for you or me? No.

 

For the big authors, however, it means that the bestseller lists have different versions of the same book, and major publishers may not like that. In the music industry, it's not as big a deal because sales are so far down they just want to sell anything at all, nobody cares about the charts. Books aren't down that much yet, and publishers still care about the charts.

 

So I'm sure there will be some exclusive stuff, but not nearly as prevalent as with records. The music industry is desperate to drive you to iTunes or Amazon so that you'll buy instead of steal. The publishing world isn't that desperate, at least yet.

 

Orren

 

That makes me happy. Being the ocd kinda person I am, I want to be able to buy all the tracks for an album where ever I get it (pre-order tracks included... half the time I don't even hear about about a pre-order until it's too late). I'm glad to hear it hasn't leaked over to the book industry yet.

 

 

Here's a little "inside forum" for you.

Our modest little iPad thread has had well over 1300 views so far. Not too bad.

Jules, keep asking those questions. (I think Orren likes it )

 

Haha, well that's good. Maybe we'll end up giving you a run for your post quantity Thoth.

 

"Keep plucking that chicken." - Ernie Anastos

 

Oh my... Poor weather man was quite confused.

[Steve E]

Haha, well that's good. Maybe we'll end up giving you a run for your post quantity Thoth.

I've got a 2 year head start on you Jules. Perhaps a run for post quality would be a more practical contest.

- Thoth (Post #2,664)