On dialogue

[Steakpirate]

I've never been too good with formatting dialogue.

 

Particularly when I'm confronted with a back and forth conversation, where character's don't necessarily need to flail or ask or interject.

 

How do you go about formatting your dialogue, in a novel, especially in such cases?

[Steve E]

"Formatting" dialogue?

 

This is pretty standard stuff. Pick up any novel and look at how the dialogue is formatted. All English language novels format their dialogue pretty much the same way (with a few exception). As for special cases, like telepathy or internal musings where the muser isn't the narrator, italics is the standard.

 

May I suggest that you pick up a copy of the Chicago Manual of Style. It's pretty much the standard reference for American writers.

 

Let me guess. You meant something completely different.

-Thoth.

[Steakpirate]

"Formatting" dialogue?

 

This is pretty standard stuff. Pick up any novel and look at how the dialogue is formatted. All English language novels format their dialogue pretty much the same way (with a few exception). As for special cases, like telepathy or internal musings where the muser isn't the narrator, italics is the standard.

 

May I suggest that you pick up a copy of the Chicago Manual of Style. It's pretty much the standard reference for American English.

 

Let me guess. You meant something completely different.

-Thoth.

 

No, I didn't mean differently, it's just that I've been reading for however many years now, and I don't know it by rote memory, and when I do open up a book, I usually have trouble finding any such scenes with extended dialogue.

 

Usually it's just, "Blah blah blah" Action by person

or

Action by person. "Blah blah blah"

 

At a glance, it seems like extended dialogue is something people try to avoid.

 

When it comes to rememberizing the basics, Steakpirate is a little special.

It helps that I'm very much out of practice, when it comes to reading and writing, and the peculiar history I had with English classes.

[Steve E]

No, I didn't mean differently, it's just that I've been reading for however many years now, and I don't know it by rote memory, and when I do open up a book, I usually have trouble finding any such scenes with extended dialogue.

 

Usually it's just, "Blah blah blah" Action by person

or

Action by person. "Blah blah blah"

I blame our TV culture. So many writers are looking for that movie or TV option that they're really writing novels that are easily transformed into screenplays. But not all. And certainly not novels written before 1950. Read anything by Dickens and you'll see what I mean.

 

At a glance, it seems like extended dialogue is something people try to avoid.

Again, it's that TV thing. But there are exceptions. Consider West Wing or something in the CSI franchise.

 

-Thoth.

[Steakpirate]

In typeset form, quotations may be either run in—that is, integrated into the text in the same type size as the text and enclosed in quotation marks—or set off from the text as block quotations, or extracts. Block quotations are not enclosed in quotation marks and always start a new line. They may be indented or set in smaller type or a different font from the text; they may have unjustified right-hand margins or less space between lines. These matters are normally decided by the publisher’s designer or by journal style. Authors preparing block quotations should avoid such devices (unless otherwise advised by their publishers) and simply use the indention feature of their word processors.

(Courtesy of the Chicago Manual of Style)

 

Actually, the other "style" of dialogue I've seen , I wouldn't call block text. I've seen people devote entire lines to each sentence, so as to make clear who's speaking.

 

It's easy to do the back and forth sort of dialogue in this format, but I'm currently writing with the dialogue integrated into the text. I'm not sure I've ever seen what they refer to as "Block" quotes in a novel.

 

 

 

But perhaps the root of my issue is that I appreciate not having to use names, when the speaker is relatively obvious; and thereby avoiding dancing around with "He said, asked, demanded, etc."

 

When this is the case, it's always seemed weird to me to have the following:

 

"I like potatoes." "As do I."

 

Normally you'd have actions to clarify who's doing what, IE:

 

"I like potatoes" chimed Billy. Ralph nodded. "As do I."

 

 

But over the course of a long conversation, I think that can get a bit monotonous.

 

As far as delving beyond the influence of TV culture goes, I'd go find my copy of Moby Dick, but as I remember, Melville preferred to talk with description.

[Steve E]

When this is the case, it's always seemed weird to me to have the following:

"I like potatoes." "As do I."

See, I'd probably write it as:

"I like potatoes."

"As do I."

Having already established that this is a conversation between Billy and his scintillating, potato-loving friend Ralph. Make it a threeway and it gets a touch more complicated.

 

But over the course of a long conversation, I think that can get a bit monotonous.

It's up to you to keep it interesting.

 

As far as delving beyond the influence of TV culture goes, I'd go find my copy of Moby Dick, but as I remember, Melville preferred to talk with description.

Actually, as I remember Moby Dick, Melville wrote it as mostly first person monologue.

Call me Ishmael. (Block quotes implied.)

 

Call me Thoth.

[Steakpirate]

See, I'd probably write it as:

"I like potatoes."

"As do I."

Having already established that this is a conversation between Billy and his potato-loving friend Ralph. Make it a threeway and it gets a touch more complicated.

 

I've often contemplated this approach, but have been fearful of wasting space, especially when it appears a greater waste on the wide pages of a word processor. This will probably be the solution I go with. You use this in conjunction with, or lieu of in-text quotes?

 

Actually, as I remember Moby Dick, Melville wrote it as mostly monologue.

Call me Ishmael. (Quotes implied.)

 

A monologous narrator, who often found himself describing

[Steve E]

I've often contemplated this approach, but have been fearful of wasting space, especially when it appears a greater waste on the wide pages of a word processor.

I don't think I've ever met anyone (before) who was concerned about the amount of white there was on the page. Wasting space? No such thing. Where did you ever get such a notion?

 

This will probably be the solution I go with.

And welcome to it.

 

You use this in conjunction with, or lieu of in-text quotes?

I try never to have two people speaking on the same line.

Exception: "We love potatoes," squealed the freaky friends in unison.

 

A monologous narrator, who often found himself describing

Too true. He was a rebel.

- Thoth.

[btjeppesen]

Time for me to chime in.

 

Thoth is right on all accounts. Let me go a little more in depth from what I've learned as a creative writing major. The standard for contemporary literature is to have a single speaker per paragraph. This includes any actions associated with those speakers. Let's say you have Steve and Thoth. Thoth likes potatoes. Steve doesn't. After Thoth speaks, he takes a bite of a raw potato. Steve knocks the potato out of Thoth's hands, then tells him off. Assuming we don't break from that order of events, there are two possible ways I would write this. Here they are:

 

"I like potatoes," Thoth said, taking a bite from a raw potato.

Like a ninja monkey, Steve knocked the potato out of Thoth's hand, mid-bite, and said, "You are what you eat."

 

or:

 

"I like potatoes."

Thoth grabbed a raw potato from the counter and went to bite it, but Steve ninja-vanishes it before he can indulge.

"Potatoes are for babies."

 

Which of those you use is up to you. Of course, you can have just the dialog, but I've found that scenes consisting of solely dialog read as if characters literally just stand in place like sleeping borgs and spout lines back and forth. Action in the midst of dialog is merely to add life to the piece, and often to hint at the moments when what one says is not what they think. You will notice that the above pieces never have two speakers on the same paragraph. In the second example, both characters are in paragraph two, but neither speaks in that paragraph.

 

As for "he said/she said," these are only to remind the reader of who is talking, or as a segue into action. If it is possible to omit these dialog tags, it is best to do just that. Remember though, that your readers will never see your scenes as clearly as you do, so you must include tags frequent enough to remind them.

 

As for "he retorted/demanded/blasphemed/spake/barfed/insert type of speech," don't do this. Dialog tags become invisible, acting merely as reminders. They are not meant to tell how a person is saying what they are saying. Let the words themselves do that. Stick to 'said' as often as possible, with an occasional 'asked' if necessary. As for letting the words indicate the manner of speech, look at my examples above. Steve pulled a ninja move on Thoth. It is obvious he's upset. So, when he says, "You are what you eat," you can guess that he probably isn't speaking calmly. And I didn't need an exclamation mark either. (Exclamation marks are the Devil.)

 

Hope this helps.

[marguerite]

Time for me to chime in.

 

Thoth is right on all accounts. Let me go a little more in depth from what I've learned as a creative writing major. The standard for contemporary literature is to have a single speaker per paragraph. This includes any actions associated with those speakers. Let's say you have Steve and Thoth. Thoth likes potatoes. Steve doesn't. After Thoth speaks, he takes a bite of a raw potato. Steve knocks the potato out of Thoth's hands, then tells him off. Assuming we don't break from that order of events, there are two possible ways I would write this. Here they are:

 

"I like potatoes," Thoth said, taking a bite from a raw potato.

Like a ninja monkey, Steve knocked the potato out of Thoth's hand, mid-bite, and said, "You are what you eat."

 

or:

 

"I like potatoes."

Thoth grabbed a raw potato from the counter and went to bite it, but Steve ninja-vanishes it before he can indulge.

"Potatoes are for babies."

 

Which of those you use is up to you. Of course, you can have just the dialog, but I've found that scenes consisting of solely dialog read as if characters literally just stand in place like sleeping borgs and spout lines back and forth. Action in the midst of dialog is merely to add life to the piece, and often to hint at the moments when what one says is not what they think. You will notice that the above pieces never have two speakers on the same paragraph. In the second example, both characters are in paragraph two, but neither speaks in that paragraph.

 

As for "he said/she said," these are only to remind the reader of who is talking, or as a segue into action. If it is possible to omit these dialog tags, it is best to do just that. Remember though, that your readers will never see your scenes as clearly as you do, so you must include tags frequent enough to remind them.

 

As for "he retorted/demanded/blasphemed/spake/barfed/insert type of speech," don't do this. Dialog tags become invisible, acting merely as reminders. They are not meant to tell how a person is saying what they are saying. Let the words themselves do that. Stick to 'said' as often as possible, with an occasional 'asked' if necessary. As for letting the words indicate the manner of speech, look at my examples above. Steve pulled a ninja move on Thoth. It is obvious he's upset. So, when he says, "You are what you eat," you can guess that he probably isn't speaking calmly. And I didn't need an exclamation mark either. (Exclamation marks are the Devil.)

 

Hope this helps.

In addition to backing up Thoth and Brian on all points, let me make two more. If you have a few interchanges that involve two people (each change indicated by a new line), you can indeed eliminate the speaker attributions for a while. But by the time you get to paragraph 5 or 6, even with just two speakers, it can become confusing. I find myself going back and counting to make sure I know who's saying what, which drags me out of the story—not where a writer wants his/her reader to be. So in my own writing I toss in a "so-and-so said" or a little piece of action after 3-4 go-rounds, just to make sure that my reader stays with me on the journey.

 

Those "beats" (moments of activity) also serve a double purpose: they act as what Elizabeth George calls a THAD (Talking Heads Avoidance Device), and they offer the writer an opportunity to fill in the setting and, more important, build character. So they're not just—or should not be—throwaways. Suppose Steve doesn't make a ninja move but caresses the potato as he tells Thoth not to eat it? Then you know Steve actually does like potatoes even though he's denying it (to himself? to everyone else?), and therefore that Steve is the kind of person (sorry, Steve—nothing personal!) who lies to himself or others. That in turn tells you that he keeps a tight rein on his passions or perhaps, like the current governor of South Carolina, indulges in private what he condemns in public. As the novel goes on, we'll find out which, but the important part is that you've created a question in the readers' minds: one that they will want to answer by continued reading.

 

I could give more examples, but you get the big point, I'm sure. Don't waste those speaker attributions. They can reveal a lot about who your characters are and how they interact with one another.

Best,

Marguerite

[Steve E]

I agree with Marguerite on all counts. ("caresses the potato"? A love that dare not speak its name.)

 

Brian is right on all but two counts but I am willing to concede that the first is a matter of personal style.

1. "As for 'he retorted/demanded/blasphemed/spake/barfed/insert type of speech,' don't do this." Nuh-uh. There are places where this is perfectly appropriate no matter what your creative writing professor's personal preferences may be. The example I gave above is one such case: "We love potatoes," squealed the freaky friends in unison.

2. Not crazy about raw potatoes so much but I do make a delicious potato lace.

 

Exclamation marks are the Devil?

What is your position on the Interrobang?

-Thoth.

[marguerite]

Brian is right on all but two accounts. But I am willing to concede that the first is a matter of personal style.

1. "As for 'he retorted/demanded/blasphemed/spake/barfed/insert type of speech,' don't do this." Nuh-uh. There are places where this is perfectly appropriate no matter what your creative writing professor's personal preferences may be. The example I gave above is one such case: "We love potatoes," squealed the freaky friends in unison.

2. Not crazy about raw potatoes so much but I do make a delicious potato lace.

 

Exclamation marks are the Devil?

What is your position on the Interrobang?

-Thoth.

I think the issue here is moderation. Because readers notice retorted/demanded, etc., a writer can use nonstandard words to great effect, once in a while. Ditto exclamation marks, passive voice, the much-despised adverb, and multiple adjectives. The trick is to know what you're doing and why; then you can break the "rules" as you like.

 

Or, as Somerset Maugham is reported to have said (note the passive voice), "There are three rules for writing a novel. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are."

Best,

M

[marguerite]

("caresses the potato"? A love that dare not speak its name.)

-Thoth.

That would tell you something about character, too, wouldn't it? More than you wanted to know, probably.

 

Been reading too much Nabokov, for too long,

M

[btjeppesen]

I agree with Marguerite on all counts. ("caresses the potato"? A love that dare not speak its name.)

 

Brian is right on all but two counts but I am willing to concede that the first is a matter of personal style.

1. "As for 'he retorted/demanded/blasphemed/spake/barfed/insert type of speech,' don't do this." Nuh-uh. There are places where this is perfectly appropriate no matter what your creative writing professor's personal preferences may be. The example I gave above is one such case: "We love potatoes," squealed the freaky friends in unison.

2. Not crazy about raw potatoes so much but I do make a delicious potato lace.

 

Exclamation marks are the Devil?

What is your position on the Interrobang?

-Thoth.

 

M's response sums it up. I tend to speak in blanket statements, but there are exceptions to every rule. I would say the rule is to stick with 'said.' There are exceptional cases when something else might be appropriate. You example is perfect for a children's book.

 

Interrobang? That's the deformed love-child of the Devil and ... trying to think of something cool to say ... a question mark. Nope, not cool at all. In anycase, the interrobang is bad and evil and not anything nice.

[Steve E]

Interrobang? That's the deformed love-child of the Devil and ... trying to think of something cool to say ... a question mark. Nope, not cool at all. In anycase, the interrobang is bad and evil and not anything nice.

One of our more esteemed members uses an Interrobang as her ID-picture on the Forum.

BTW: Where's your picture?

-Thoth (bird-headed god on your left)

[btjeppesen]

One of our more esteemed members uses an Interrobang as her ID-picture on the Forum.

BTW: Where's your picture?

-Thoth (bird-headed god on your left)

 

 

I ate it.

[Steve E]

I ate it.

Tough guy, eh?

Or perhaps that is your picture.

Shades of The Invisible Man.

-Thoth.

[Joolissa]

Shades and Invisible Men aside.....I was told to give each speaker a new line with an indent (which I don't think you can show on this forum)

 

So, pretending ..... is an indent

 

 

....."Blah blah blah whatever!" said the tween in her high pitched nasally voice. "Loser, loser, double loser, as if, whatever, get the picture, duh!"

....."Go to your room young lady!"

.....Steam poured out of Mom's ears and her finger swung to point to the tween's room as a compass needle points north.

 

Heh, or something like that.

 

Humbly begging the forgiveness of all the un-stuck up tweens

- Jules

[Steve E]

_____"Yep. That looks about right," says the worldly-wise middle-age gentleman to his twenty-something correspondent. "I suspect no prostration is necessary as most un-stuck tweens understand what you are trying to say,"

 

_____ Indented for your pleasure.

-Thoth.

[Joolissa]