Bug or not yet supported?

[Joolissa]

Hey

So, perhaps I am whining too much recently (we should start a Rave area on the forum to tell Steve all the things we really like), but I'm wondering if this is a bug or not yet supported:

 

When I import a .doc file, Storyist is not recognizing headings as new chapters and it is not retaining my italicized text. I can handle the not recognizing chapters, because that isn't too hard to do manually (perhaps time consuming if you have a LOT of chapters already though), but since I use italicized text to represent a character's thought, it means I will have to read through my whole manuscript to re-italicize what I lost. Is there any way to fix this? I would really like not to have to read through 38,000 words to italicize things. I would much rather deal with redo-ing my chapter and section separations than that. Is there something I need to do to the .doc file first? Settings I'm missing in Storyist (I always have it set to not change emphasis in the importing menu thingy) Help!

[Steve]

Hey

So, perhaps I am whining too much recently (we should start a Rave area on the forum to tell Steve all the things we really like), but I'm wondering if this is a bug or not yet supported:

 

When I import a .doc file, Storyist is not recognizing headings as new chapters and it is not retaining my italicized text. I can handle the not recognizing chapters, because that isn't too hard to do manually (perhaps time consuming if you have a LOT of chapters already though), but since I use italicized text to represent a character's thought, it means I will have to read through my whole manuscript to re-italicize what I lost. Is there any way to fix this? I would really like not to have to read through 38,000 words to italicize things. I would much rather deal with redo-ing my chapter and section separations than that. Is there something I need to do to the .doc file first? Settings I'm missing in Storyist (I always have it set to not change emphasis in the importing menu thingy) Help!

 

Hi Julia,

 

For .doc files, Storyist uses the Mac OS X doc converter; so what you see in Text Edit is what Storyist sees. Unfortunately, this means no style sheets, headers, or footers. I haven't seen problems with italics before, though. Do you see the same missing italics in Text Edit? If not, could you send me a short sample?

 

The highest fidelity import is RTF. The RTF importer is native to Storyist does read stylesheets, headers, footers, etc..., so if you can, export your doc file from Word as RTF and import that to Storyist.

 

If you can't, you can still have Storyist recognize Chapter beaks using the Edit > Tools > Apply Styles By Matching Text command.

 

-Steve

[Joolissa]

[/begin ridiculous whining]

WAHHHHH!!!!!!!!! It's not wooorrrrrkiingggg!!

[/end ridiculous whining]

 

*deep breath*

Okay... so I've tried everything I can think of. I've gone through the word doc changed all my chapter headings to Heading 1, put the correct section breaks in, changed the font to courier etc. etc. then imported that. no joy.

 

I tried saving as a .rtf.... and in text edit all my text is inside some sort of table, which REALLY screws with how it imports (I've gotten HUGE breaks between the headings and the actual text, I've also gotten all caps upon import)

 

I've tried messing with what styles to replace with what, but sometimes not all the styles are available

 

I've tried re-exporting (and using another day of my scrivener trial *sigh*) as an RTF, which sorta works, it gets me italics, but it doesn't give me the option to get a true Chapter heading, so no nice industry standard half way down the page thing....

 

I'm kinda stuck and about ready to give up, bite the bullet, and read through my already imported and chapter/sectionized manuscript and re-italicize

 

I think the missing italics might have to do with applying the Section style to the text.... whether upon import or after.

 

Sorry to be so confusing!

[hase]

[/begin ridiculous whining]

WAHHHHH!!!!!!!!! It's not wooorrrrrkiingggg!!

[/end ridiculous whining]

 

Forgive me if I sound naive, but did you try a simple copy/paste? I just tried it here and it retains italics. I'm sure there are good & sound - even religious - reasons against doing something simple like copying from one application into another, but sometimes I wonder if exporting and importing mightn't be too cumbersome...

Works with large files also - I just copied Kant's Kritik der reinen Vernunft (184743 words) from Pages to Storyist - it takes a while but it works perfectly, crashes upon saving the file. But it works with 11000 words, no crash at all, I swear.

[marguerite]

Forgive me if I sound naive, but did you try a simple copy/paste? I just tried it here and it retains italics. I'm sure there are good & sound - even religious - reasons against doing something simple like copying from one application into another, but sometimes I wonder if exporting and importing mightn't be too cumbersome...

Works with large files also - I just copied Kant's Kritik der reinen Vernunft (184743 words) from Pages to Storyist - it takes a while but it works perfectly, crashes upon saving the file. But it works with 11000 words, no crash at all, I swear.

If she cuts and pastes, she will have to manually assign the Section Text style, which will wipe out all her italics. I went through every version of this with an earlier novel where two characters communicated mentally through italicized text and nearly tore my hair out.

 

Jules, try this:

1. Set up styles in Word that match the Storyist styles: Chapter Title, Section Text, etc. Set the font information and everything to match the way you want it to look inside Storyist. Then apply those styles in Word (if you are already using different styles in Word, even if the different style is Normal, you can use Word's Replace feature to find Normal and replace it with Section Text, then # styled as Section Text and replace it with # styled as Section Separator. It's probably easiest just to style the chapter headings one by one, especially if you use Chapter as part of the heading (you can find "Chapter" one instance at a time). Word should protect your text overrides (italics) while assigning the new styles.

2. Export this file to RTF. This is a very important step because the import assistant, which worked seamlessly in version 1, was not as reliable during V2 beta testing. I haven't tested it in the release version, though.

3. Drag the RTF file into the Project View in your V2 manuscript. When prompted to specify what you're trying to add, make sure the drop-down menu says "Manuscript." The default settings should produce something under Manuscripts in the Project View that looks like a notebook entry. It's not. It is your manuscript in all its glory, with its default settings intact. Only the icon is different. There are a couple of preference settings you can change to make the thing act more like a manuscript, but let's see if you can get your file this far before we worry about that.

 

If that doesn't work, you can import the RTF into a V1 file (if you still have V1) and then open that in V2.

 

The one thing I don't understand is why conversion to RTF is resulting in a table. Is there something in your Word style definitions or setup that causes that to happen?

 

Let me know what happens. I'm sure we can trouble-shoot this. I imported my 165-section tome a zillion times and eventually got to the point where it was almost seamless. It can be done!

Best,

Marguerite

Queen of Imports and Exports

[Steve E]

Jules, try this:...

I can verify that this works, Jules.

 

If that doesn't work, you can import the RTF into a V1 file (if you still have V1) and then open that in V2.

This works too and is a bit easier.

 

Marguerite

Queen of Imports and Exports

Without a doubt.

M has hunted down very nearly all of Storyist's import and export bugs. She's the go-to gal on this topic.

 

Converting all my V1 files to V2 (but saving the originals since I'm not that confident yet).

-Thoth.

[marguerite]

I can verify that this works, Jules.

 

This works too and is a bit easier.

 

Without a doubt.

M has hunted down very nearly all of Storyist's import and export bugs. She's the go-to gal on this topic.

 

Converting all my V1 files to V2 (but saving the originals since I'm not that confident yet).

-Thoth.

Thanks for the support!

 

One additional point: this works the other way, too. Once you set up the styles in Word, you can save that file as a template. Then you can export a manuscript from Storyist as RTF and import it into your template, and Word will "recognize" your Storyist styles. (Until the day when Apple and Storyist take over the world, and such exports will no longer be necessary, of course. )

 

Yes, I too am proceeding slowly with conversion, although I have already made changes to my big file in V2 (I was able to move all my deleted sections into a separate manuscript, which is helpful). Making frequent backups, though.

Cheers,

M

[Joolissa]

*sigh*

 

I got close, but it wasn't right, so I deleted it, and now I can't even get that close again.

 

I re-exported to RTF to strip any curly quotes etc. Then I opened the RTF in word and created and applied styles titled for Storyist. I then imported that. Some combination of that got me incredibly close, but there were extra styles kicking around in the list of the document styles and it wouldn't let me delete them, so I just deleted the manuscript and now have not been able to get so close again.

 

It's importing, but it's not putting it into industry standard formatting... which defeats the whole purpose of trying to get it in there right. Also, there are extra styles listed in the inspector, which I can't delete and being rather OCD that annoys me to no end. It's keeping the italics, but then half the time it won't apply an edit to the style to the whole document, which means I have to highlight everything, which then strips the italics. >_<

 

So basically, still no matter what I try I can't have both worlds. I either get the nice formatting or I get italics. I can't figure out how to get both.

 

And copy-pasting isn't working either. Oh and I have tried making all the text in the rtf file styled as section text, so I could manually do the chapter titles, but that isn't working either.

 

I'm going to continue to fool around with it. Any more suggestions would be welcome.

[Steve E]

When you do the cut and paste do you Paste To Match Style?

 

Just curious.

-Thoth.

[marguerite]

*sigh*

 

I got close, but it wasn't right, so I deleted it, and now I can't even get that close again.

 

I re-exported to RTF to strip any curly quotes etc. Then I opened the RTF in word and created and applied styles titled for Storyist. I then imported that. Some combination of that got me incredibly close, but there were extra styles kicking around in the list of the document styles and it wouldn't let me delete them, so I just deleted the manuscript and now have not been able to get so close again.

 

It's importing, but it's not putting it into industry standard formatting... which defeats the whole purpose of trying to get it in there right. Also, there are extra styles listed in the inspector, which I can't delete and being rather OCD that annoys me to no end. It's keeping the italics, but then half the time it won't apply an edit to the style to the whole document, which means I have to highlight everything, which then strips the italics. >_

 

So basically, still no matter what I try I can't have both worlds. I either get the nice formatting or I get italics. I can't figure out how to get both.

 

And copy-pasting isn't working either. Oh and I have tried making all the text in the rtf file styled as section text, so I could manually do the chapter titles, but that isn't working either.

 

I'm going to continue to fool around with it. Any more suggestions would be welcome.

Hmm. I just tested this in V2 and it worked perfectly. I opened a new manuscript based on the Novel template (actually it's the same one I used to test the ducking and weaving character fields), dragged an existing RTF file onto the Project View, and chose "Novel Manuscript" from the drop-down add menu. Storyist dumped the new manuscript under Bookmarks (slightly weird behavior), but when I clicked the flippy triangle, there was my manuscript. I dragged it up to Manuscripts, and there it was, italics and all. It even looked like a manuscript: Steve must have fixed the icons.

 

Just to check, I did the same thing with a .doc file. It too imported, although I hadn't styled it, so everything came in as Default Style. Storyist preserved the font information, though, and it did not add any styles. There were no italics in that file to begin with.

 

Couple of things to check:

 

1. Are you using exactly the same names in Word? chapter title and Chapter title and Chapter Title are 3 different styles.

2. Is there something unique about your Word files (I can't imagine what, but Storyist won't yet import some Word features--lists and tables can be problematic)?

 

There is, BTW, no need to strip out curly quotes, etc. (nor will exporting to RTF actually do that), before importing to Storyist. By default, Storyist leaves stuff like that alone, and you can fix it when you get the file there, anyway.

 

You're welcome to send me a PM with a small (1-2 page) sample of your text, if you're not afraid to do that. (I swear, I have huge projects of my own and no interest in swiping yours.) If you're doing anything special to the Storyist file, you could send me a stripped-down version of that, too. But if you're creating a new file from Novel each time, I can do that without a sample.

Best,

M

[Joolissa]

Side Note: Love this forum.... my computer froze again and it thankfully saved all the info I had already typed in here...... maybe that's firefox though.....

 

Okay.. so.. I'm going to try everything one more time in order and document exactly what I do and the results there of, so forgive me but this may be a long post.

 

Scrivener:

All # are in place

Compile Draft

Export Format > RTF

By default it straightens the quotes and all that stuff

Courier 12 pt font

 

Now I have my RFT file.

 

The Following Techniques all got the same result:

 

Drag&Drop Unedited RTF File:

New Storyist File > Novel > delete the default manuscript >empty trash

Drag RTF file from desktop into Manuscript folder > choose Novel Manuscript as file type

 

Import Unedited RTF File:

New Storyist File > Novel > delete the default manuscript >empty trash

Import > Manuscript > Create Workflow For Me

There are no "Chapter Title", "Section Text", or "Section Separator" styles listed in the "Replacement Style" drop down for me to choose, therefore I can't apply any styles

Next > No Change in any typography options > next > import

 

Opening RTF In Word Then Drag & Drop:

Open RTF File in Word > Highlight all > change style to normal > save

New Storyist File > Novel > delete the default manuscript >empty trash

Drag RTF file from desktop into Manuscript folder > choose Novel Manuscript as file type

 

Opening RTF in Word Then Importing

Open RTF File in Word > Highlight all > change style to normal > save

New Storyist File > Novel > delete the default manuscript >empty trash

Import > Manuscript > Create Workflow For Me

There are no "Chapter Title", "Section Text", or "Section Separator" styles listed in the "Replacement Style" drop down for me to choose, therefore I can't apply any styles

Next > No Change in any typography options > next > import

 

Editing RTF In Word Then Drag & Drop:

Open RTF File in Word > Highlight all > change style to normal

Change all Chapter headings (i.e. Chapter One, Chapter Two) to Heading 1 Style > save

New Storyist File > Novel > delete the default manuscript >empty trash

Drag RTF file from desktop into Manuscript folder > choose Novel Manuscript as file type

 

Result:

Novel Manuscript with a bunch of sections, but no chapters. The sections are separated by the documents #s.

Text is in default style

There are no "Chapter Title", "Section Text", or "Section Separator" styles listed in the inspector for me to apply. The styles that were there were generally a combination of multiple Default Styles, Default Paragraph font, normal, Headings, etc. etc.

Italics are present.

No Industry standard formatting

 

The Following had Different Results:

 

Opening RTF in Word Then Importing

Open RTF File in Word > Highlight all > change style to normal

Change all Chapter headings (i.e. Chapter One, Chapter Two) to Heading 1 Style > save

New Storyist File > Novel > delete the default manuscript >empty trash

Import > Manuscript > Create Workflow For Me

There are no "Chapter Title", "Section Text", or "Section Separator" styles listed in the "Replacement Style" drop down for me to choose, therefore I can't apply any styles

Next > No Change in any typography options > next > import

 

Result:

I have a manuscript with Chapters & Sections in the proper places.

Text is in default style

There are no "Chapter Title", "Section Text", or "Section Separator" styles listed in the inspector for me to apply. The styles that were there were generally a combination of multiple Default Styles, Default Paragraph font, normal, Headings, etc. etc.

Italics are present.

No Industry standard formatting

 

Copy RTF File & Paste to Match Style

Open RTF file in Word (text is styled normal and chapter headings are heading 1) > Copy Text

New Storyist File > Novel > Highlight All

Edit > Paste to Match Style

 

Result:

The first time I did this it was spinning wheel of death-ing me, so I force quit-ed storyist

The second time I just let it sit and eventually it pasted, but everything pasted as a chapter heading, so that was really screwy.

I also tried to Paste & Match style after deleting all default text except for the chapter heading, leaving my type tool in the "section text" style. This resulted in section text, but the italics were lost.

 

The following are the Closest I've gotten:

 

Copy RTF File & Paste

Open RTF file in Word (text is styled normal and chapter headings are heading 1) > Copy Text

New Storyist File > Novel > Highlight All

Paste

 

Result:

Text Pasted

Manuscript is divided into sections

No styles are applied

Italics are present

"Chapter Title", "Section Text", and "Section Separator" styles are listed in the inspector for me to apply.

Heading & Default style are also listed (is that normal?)

Applying Section Text Strips italics

 

Editing RTF In Word Then Importing - no changes

Open RTF File in Word

Create Styles Chapter Title, Section Text, Section Separator

Replace all Normal styled text with Section Text style

Replace all Heading1 styled text with Chapter title style

Replace all Section Text styled #s with Section Separator styled #s

Save

New Storyist File > Novel > delete the default manuscript >empty trash

Import > Manuscript > Create Workflow For Me

No changes for replacement styles

No changes in typography option

Import

 

Result:

I now have a manuscript with Chapters & Sections

The styles are correct, BUT it is not the industry standard setting, it's what it was set to in word.

Italics are present

Editing a style effect the whole document correctly

Also listed in the inspector are: 2 "default style", "heading 1", and "Default Paragraph Font" ... this annoys me.... I can't delete them and I really really want to. I have tried turning a random bit of text into that style then deleting it by doing the whole "replace & delete" thing... when I do that it ends up deleting one of the other styles that I want to keep and not the one I want to get rid of

 

Editing RTF In Word Then Importing - with changes

Open RTF File in Word

Create Styles Chapter Title, Section Text, Section Separator

Replace all Normal styled text with Section Text style

Replace all Heading1 styled text with Chapter title style

Replace all Section Text styled #s with Section Separator styled #s

Save

New Storyist File > Novel > delete the default manuscript >empty trash

Import > Manuscript > Create Workflow For Me

In the styles I deleted "heading 1", "Normal", "Normal Table"

I then Hit "replacement styles" and all the same styles came that were listed in the "current style" list are in the "replacement style" list... but just for the heck of it I change Chapter Title to Chapter Title and so on

No changes in typography option

Import

 

Result:

Same as without changes

 

 

That's is where I'm currently at. Out of ideas too. It seems I can either stick with what ever I did before all this (I don't remember now, probably some type of importing and then applying all the styles manually) and reading through it manually to redo my italics... or I can import it with the italics, but lose the formatting. >_<

[marguerite]

OK. There are several places here where problems can occur. The first is that you are exporting the file from Scrivener, which may not be doing a great job of creating the RTF file (this is indicated by your having greater success when you filter the file through Word). The second is what you are doing in Word. The third is a bug in the Storyist 2 import assistant, which is why I suggested you drag and drop (or go through v1) rather than importing through the menu. Let me post this, so you know someone is answering, and then I'll get to the specifics.

Best,

M

[Steve E]

First, your post may be one for the record books, Jules.

 

Second, when you refer to the limited number of styles in the Inspector I assume you're talking about paragraph styles. Are you aware that you can create your own styles in Format>Style>Create New Style From Selection?

 

Third, you seemed to have tried a lot of different things. The cut & paste as always worked for me but I synchronize styles in the RTF and the template before pasting. If this doesn't work for you than I suspect it's time to talk to the Great and Powerful Wizard of Steve. (Which, I guess, M is taking care of.)

 

I know this can be frustrating. Imagine what it must be like for users who don't have your initiative and moxie (yes, it's a word - it's also a soft drink introduced in 1876). Don't give up.

-Thoth

[marguerite]

Scrivener:

All # are in place

Compile Draft

Export Format > RTF

By default it straightens the quotes and all that stuff

Courier 12 pt font

 

Now I have my RFT file.

There are a couple of other issues here. Scrivener (I would guess), Text Edit RTF files, and Storyist all use Apple's system fonts. Word has its own proprietary versions to make it possible to exchange files seamlessly between the Mac and PC versions. This can produce some bizarre results with, say, Courier-Oblique, which does not exist in Word. If it becomes a problem, there is a place in Word Preferences where you can tell it which fonts you want it to substitute for Apple system fonts. But if you do nothing, the font, however weird it looks in Word, should be okay again when it gets to Storyist, so let's not bother with that for now. However, while we're on the topic of Scrivener, I assume you don't want straightened quotes in your final file?

 

Editing RTF In Word Then Importing - no changes

Open RTF File in Word

Create Styles Chapter Title, Section Text, Section Separator

Replace all Normal styled text with Section Text style

Replace all Heading1 styled text with Chapter title style

Replace all Section Text styled #s with Section Separator styled #s

Save

New Storyist File > Novel > delete the default manuscript >empty trash

Import > Manuscript > Create Workflow For Me

No changes for replacement styles

No changes in typography option

Import

 

Result:

I now have a manuscript with Chapters & Sections

The styles are correct, BUT it is not the industry standard setting, it's what it was set to in word.

Italics are present

Editing a style effect the whole document correctly

Also listed in the inspector are: 2 "default style", "heading 1", and "Default Paragraph Font" ... this annoys me.... I can't delete them and I really really want to. I have tried turning a random bit of text into that style then deleting it by doing the whole "replace & delete" thing... when I do that it ends up deleting one of the other styles that I want to keep and not the one I want to get rid of

This should work. See my next post for a step-by-step.

 

I suspect your problem is not with importing but with how Storyist handles styles, which as Thoth has told you is not done solely, or even primarily, through the Inspector.

 

The leftover styles probably mean that Word is still marking those styles as used in the document, so Storyist imports them. If everything in your RTF has styles that Storyist recognizes and no other styles, only those styles will import.

 

If the formatting is not what you want when the styled text gets into Storyist, you should be able to redefine the style in Storyist by correcting one paragraph, selecting it, then choosing Format > Style > Redefine Style from Selection. This is another artifact of Word playing by its own rules, so what it considers, say, double spacing and Courier may not be what anyone else considers double spacing and Courier. Also make sure that Word saves your file as a Word RTF, as it does perform some of the conversions when it does that which otherwise don't get done. (You'll know because the file icon will change to look more like a .doc file.)

 

Let me know if any of this helps.

 

BTW, you can't delete "Default Style." That's the style that Storyist applies if nothing else is applied, especially in the Notebook, which can now contain styled text, but only if you tell it what style you want. You can't delete Heading 1 in Word, either, because it's set by the program, but if it is not applied anywhere it shouldn't show up in Storyist. Ditto Default Paragraph Font.

 

And the file is preserving Word's style definitions so that you will not lose your italics and any other font information during import. So the only issue is to redefine your styles, if necessary, in Storyist. You do that through the Styles palette, which you can access through Format > Styles > Edit Current Style (or Format > Styles > Create New Style from Selection, but you've already applied styles, so you need that only for new styles).

 

Yes, Thoth is right. Don't give up. This is a learning curve, and you're actually very close.

Best,

M

[marguerite]

Hey, Jules—

Having written that enormous post, I took a bit of time to test the process as it should be working for you. Forgive the perhaps too simple question, but when you choose "Create a workflow for me" and go to the next screen, have you been clicking the double-headed arrows to SEE the list of styles that you want to match?

 

I ask because I did the folllowing and got exactly what I (and no doubt you) expected:

1. I opened an RTF file in Word, cut out all but a couple of pages, and straightened some quotes and entered some underlines and a three-period run instead of ellipses.

2. I created three styles: Section Text, Section Separator, and Chapter Title. I defined these styles to match the Storyist definitions, more or less: Courier 12 point double-spaced, with a first line indent of 0.25 inches, which I prefer to the 0.5 inch default.

3. I selected all and applied Section Text, to make sure there were no lingering Word styles.

4. I selected the section separators and chapter title and applied the appropriate styles.

5. I saved the file and quit Word.

6. I opened Storyist 2.0 and chose a new file based on Novel.

7. I chose File > Import and made sure "Run the Import Assistant after Importing" was checked.

8. I selected "Create a new workflow for me" and clicked Next.

9. In the next screen, I clicked on each double-headed arrow and chose the style I wanted Storyist to match: Chapter Title > Chapter Title, Section Text (and Normal) > Section Text, and Section Separator > Section Separator.

10. I clicked Next. In the third screen I chose "Change straight quotes to curly," "Change underlining to italics," and "Change three periods to ellipses," and clicked Next.

 

Storyist imported my file, made the changes I requested, and displayed the results on screen, recognizing the chapter title and the section breaks.

 

Is that exactly what you are doing?

Best,

M

[Steve]

Scrivener:

All # are in place

Compile Draft

Export Format > RTF

By default it straightens the quotes and all that stuff

Courier 12 pt font

 

Hi Julia,

 

So what you are trying to do is:

 

1) Import a file.

 

2) Replace the existing formatting with the template formatting, but preserving the italics.

 

I'm pretty sure that Scrivener doesn't support styles, so I'm willing to bet the exported RTF doesn't have style sheet. Since there is no style sheet, Storyist can't tell what is part of the base style (e.g. 12 pt Courier) and what is part of an overridden style (e.g. italic), which makes step 2 a little involved.

 

Good thing Storyist has some good style tools. Here is what I would do:

 

1) Add the Scrivener RTF file to a project.

2) Define new styles to match the intended formatting.

3) Apply the new styles to your manuscript using the style tools in the Edit and Format > Style menu.

 

In more detail:

 

1) Add the Scrivener RTF file to a project.

 

1.1) Create a new project from the Novel template.

 

1.2) Drag the RTF file to the Project view, selecting Novel Manuscript as the type. You should now have a file that has the same formatting as your Scrivener file, but no chapter structure and the default style sheet (Heading 1, Heading 2, Body Text, etc...). Note: Storyist assigns this default style sheet to files that don't already have a style sheet.

 

2) Define new styles to match the intended formatting.

 

In this step we'll edit the Body Text and Heading 1 styles to be Section Text and Chapter Title.

 

2.1) Open the Inspector by clicking on the Inspector icon in the toolbar and select the Styles tab, which is the second one.

 

2.2) Move the mouse over the Body Text style. A disclosure triangle will appear. Click it and select Edit Style. The style editor will appear with the settings for Body Text.

 

2.3) Edit the style to have the following parameters:

 

Style Name: Section Text

Next Style: Body Text (should be section text, but it looks like the editor doesn't update when you change the name).

Font: 12 pt Courier.

Line Spacing: At Least 24 pt.

etc... You can look at the settings for Section Text in the example manuscript and adapt to suit your taste.

 

2.4) Repeat step 2.2 with the Heading 1 style and edit it to use the following settings:

 

Style Name: Chapter Title

Next Style: Section Text

etc...

 

Note: You can also change a style by selecting some text, using the formatting commands to edit it, and choosing Format > Style > Redefine Style from Selection.

 

3) Apply the new styles to your manuscript.

 

3.1) Choose Format > Style > Replace Styles. A dialog will appear listing the current styles on the left and the replacement styles on the right.

 

3.2) Select the following replacement style: Default Style > Section Text and press return. Notice that your manuscript body text now has the Section Text style, but the italics are preserved.

 

3.2) Choose Format > Style > Apply Style by Matching Text. Delete the wildcard ("*") paring (this is important if you want to preserve the italics) and make sure there is an entry for mapping the paragraph text "Chapter" to the "Chapter Title style (it should be there by default. Notice your chapters are now listed in the project outline.

 

3.2) Define a style for Section Separator, and apply is using the "Apply Style by Matching Text" command.

 

And you should be set.

 

-Steve

[Joolissa]

First, your post may be one for the record books, Jules.

 

Second, when you refer to the limited number of styles in the Inspector I assume you're talking about paragraph styles. Are you aware that you can create your own styles in Format>Style>Create New Style From Selection?

 

Third, you seemed to have tried a lot of different things. The cut & paste as always worked for me but I synchronize styles in the RTF and the template before pasting. If this doesn't work for you than I suspect it's time to talk to the Great and Powerful Wizard of Steve. (Which, I guess, M is taking care of.)

 

I know this can be frustrating. Imagine what it must be like for users who don't have your initiative and moxie (yes, it's a word - it's also a soft drink introduced in 1876). Don't give up.

-Thoth

 

Thank you Thoth. I appreciate your praise. lol.

 

Yes that is what I was talking about and yes I am aware I can edit and create my own, but being the newbie that I am I'm not overly font of try to edit things back into industry standard, though that looks like what I'm going to have to do. I've come to terms with this.

 

If by synchronize styles you mean have the same names of styles in both the RTF and the Storyist file.. then yes... though there may have been a mistake on my part.. see below.

 

Moxie...

 

 

There are a couple of other issues here. Scrivener (I would guess), Text Edit RTF files, and Storyist all use Apple's system fonts. Word has its own proprietary versions to make it possible to exchange files seamlessly between the Mac and PC versions. This can produce some bizarre results with, say, Courier-Oblique, which does not exist in Word. If it becomes a problem, there is a place in Word Preferences where you can tell it which fonts you want it to substitute for Apple system fonts. But if you do nothing, the font, however weird it looks in Word, should be okay again when it gets to Storyist, so let's not bother with that for now. However, while we're on the topic of Scrivener, I assume you don't want straightened quotes in your final file?

 

 

This should work. See my next post for a step-by-step.

 

I suspect your problem is not with importing but with how Storyist handles styles, which as Thoth has told you is not done solely, or even primarily, through the Inspector.

 

The leftover styles probably mean that Word is still marking those styles as used in the document, so Storyist imports them. If everything in your RTF has styles that Storyist recognizes and no other styles, only those styles will import.

 

If the formatting is not what you want when the styled text gets into Storyist, you should be able to redefine the style in Storyist by correcting one paragraph, selecting it, then choosing Format > Style > Redefine Style from Selection. This is another artifact of Word playing by its own rules, so what it considers, say, double spacing and Courier may not be what anyone else considers double spacing and Courier. Also make sure that Word saves your file as a Word RTF, as it does perform some of the conversions when it does that which otherwise don't get done. (You'll know because the file icon will change to look more like a .doc file.)

 

Let me know if any of this helps.

 

BTW, you can't delete "Default Style." That's the style that Storyist applies if nothing else is applied, especially in the Notebook, which can now contain styled text, but only if you tell it what style you want. You can't delete Heading 1 in Word, either, because it's set by the program, but if it is not applied anywhere it shouldn't show up in Storyist. Ditto Default Paragraph Font.

 

And the file is preserving Word's style definitions so that you will not lose your italics and any other font information during import. So the only issue is to redefine your styles, if necessary, in Storyist. You do that through the Styles palette, which you can access through Format > Styles > Edit Current Style (or Format > Styles > Create New Style from Selection, but you've already applied styles, so you need that only for new styles).

 

Yes, Thoth is right. Don't give up. This is a learning curve, and you're actually very close.

Best,

M

 

To that first paragraph about word and fonts all I can say is: huh? but then I've had a long day which involved a lot of gears turning in my head.. soooooooo.... I swear I saw mention of courier oblique in word though....could be wrong... could be wrong....

 

Are straightened quotes something that are needed for standard formatting? Does Storyist automatically make curly quotes? I don't want half a manuscript with and half without... and if industry standard leans towards straight.. then that's fine with me... I don't really have a preference as long as it's consistent.

 

I can't imagine where the left over styles are coming from an unless the default novel template has headings and stuff in the notebook.. I don't have them kicking around that I'm aware of. Also Word is saving as that word doc icon look a like RTF thingy.....

 

All of this redefining and re-editing styles makes me cringe... but if that is what it takes I will bite the bullet.... grit my teeth.... build a bridge... (can you tell it's past 3am.. *yawn*.. and tomorrow I have to wake up early.. but I'm leaving for vaca and I want to get this post in before I go)

 

The editing styles meant that I had to apply the style to the rest of the document, which lost me my italics anyhow...... least from what I was doing. Redefining files might work.. maybe.... Frankly at this point I'd be happy to get my manuscript imported into industry standard formatting with my italics converted to underlines so I could see where they were and then re-italicize them that way.

 

Hey, Jules—

Having written that enormous post, I took a bit of time to test the process as it should be working for you. Forgive the perhaps too simple question, but when you choose "Create a workflow for me" and go to the next screen, have you been clicking the double-headed arrows to SEE the list of styles that you want to match?

 

I ask because I did the folllowing and got exactly what I (and no doubt you) expected:

1. I opened an RTF file in Word, cut out all but a couple of pages, and straightened some quotes and entered some underlines and a three-period run instead of ellipses.

2. I created three styles: Section Text, Section Separator, and Chapter Title. I defined these styles to match the Storyist definitions, more or less: Courier 12 point double-spaced, with a first line indent of 0.25 inches, which I prefer to the 0.5 inch default.

3. I selected all and applied Section Text, to make sure there were no lingering Word styles.

4. I selected the section separators and chapter title and applied the appropriate styles.

5. I saved the file and quit Word.

6. I opened Storyist 2.0 and chose a new file based on Novel.

7. I chose File > Import and made sure "Run the Import Assistant after Importing" was checked.

8. I selected "Create a new workflow for me" and clicked Next.

9. In the next screen, I clicked on each double-headed arrow and chose the style I wanted Storyist to match: Chapter Title > Chapter Title, Section Text (and Normal) > Section Text, and Section Separator > Section Separator.

10. I clicked Next. In the third screen I chose "Change straight quotes to curly," "Change underlining to italics," and "Change three periods to ellipses," and clicked Next.

 

Storyist imported my file, made the changes I requested, and displayed the results on screen, recognizing the chapter title and the section breaks.

 

Is that exactly what you are doing?

Best,

M

 

Okay... to answer the first question.. yes I have been clicking that to get the list of styles that are available for me to replace my current styles with....and they've been the same list as what I'm trying to replace...for most of the time.. and the times that they haven't been.. I haven't been able to duplicate, so I dunno what's going on.

 

.......o.....m......g....

 

just to make me eat my words... I thought I would try again... opened a new Storyist file.... but this time I forgot to delete the default manuscript, so when I went to import my Word styled to match Storyist style titles RTF File... and clicked that double headed arrow.. the storyist styles were there to choose from! .... so I set it to change the file styles to the correct storyist file.. hit import... and!!!!

 

OMG IT WORKED!

 

I ran (metaphorically) over to my main file and imported it into that just to see and low and behold

 

IT WORKED AGAIN!!!!

 

So now.. I have my wonderfully formatted file with my italics *dance*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I guess now the trick is to figure out what exactly worked.

 

As a note before when importing the little bubble below the whole changing styles menu said "Current Stylesheet" ... when not deleting the default manuscript.... it says "Project Stylesheet".. I'd noticed this before.. but couldn't get the Project sheet to show up often........ I have it figured out now. If I delete the default manuscript and empty the trash.. the project stylesheet goes away as well... which prevents me from converting my styling correctly.......

 

Okay... Just to be thorough I'll continue through the rest of this.. but... correct way or incorrect way it's now working....

 

Another thing I was also going to note, was the with my aversion to editing styles.. I didn't set my margins or line spacing in the Word styles... only the title.. I was thinking perhaps that would have something to do with it, but now it doesn't seem to care.

 

Here's what I did that's on your list, with stuff I didn't do crossed out if you added in deleting the default manuscript before hand, it wouldn't work... if you don't... it does...:

1. I opened an RTF file in Word, cut out all but a couple of pages, and straightened some quotes and entered some underlines and a three-period run instead of ellipses.

2. I created three styles: Section Text, Section Separator, and Chapter Title. I defined these styles to match the Storyist definitions, more or less: Courier 12 point double-spaced, with a first line indent of 0.25 inches, which I prefer to the 0.5 inch default.

3. I selected all and applied Section Text, to make sure there were no lingering Word styles.

4. I selected the section separators and chapter title and applied the appropriate styles.

5. I saved the file and quit Word.

6. I opened Storyist 2.0 and chose a new file based on Novel.

7. I chose File > Import and made sure "Run the Import Assistant after Importing" was checked.

8. I selected "Create a new workflow for me" and clicked Next.

9. In the next screen, I clicked on each double-headed arrow and chose the style I wanted Storyist to match: Chapter Title > Chapter Title, Section Text (and Normal) > Section Text, and Section Separator > Section Separator. (Please see note about Project Stylesheet vs. Current Stylesheet)

10. I clicked Next. In the third screen I chose "Change straight quotes to curly," "Change underlining to italics," and "Change three periods to ellipses," and clicked Next.

 

 

Hi Julia,

 

So what you are trying to do is:

 

1) Import a file.

 

[insert Charlie Brown's Teacher's talking here.... (wah woh wah wah won)... it's too much for my tired brain]

 

And you should be set.

 

-Steve

 

Steve.... Thanks.... but.. you lost me around the editing styles... First, my text wasn't actually Body text.. it was default style... so... Nothing changed right away? Is it supposed to? Also.... would re-defining the heading to chapter style give it the whole starting half way down the page and yada yada? I would really like not to have to define all that stuff myself until I am more comfy with Storyist use in general...

 

Sooo to sum it up, I didn't make it through all your instructions, especially since throwing the raw RTF file into word and give new titles to the styles is much simpler for me to do right now and that I also found a way to get it to work (barring the skeleton in the closet I haven't seen yet).

 

The fact that I didn't make it all the way through and am lost about them probably generally has more to do with the fact that it's 4 am. I plan on following your instructions step by step when I get the chance just to make sure it works. I will let you know how that works out. I would want a little more detail on that "next style" bit.. and what settings and numbers I need to put in for each one...

 

For now I'd like to hear the thoughts on the fiasco and how I actually got it to work.

 

By the way.. I'm very fond of this forum and you guys and greatly appreciate all the support... it's a rare thing.

 

okay.. now..to finish packing what I can and maybe get a couple hours of sleep. At least I will go to sleep with a grin!

[marguerite]

Yes, it works best to leave the default manuscript in place until after you have imported your file. Then you can delete it and empty the trash. As long as it's there, Storyist can call on those style definitions, which will give you standard formatting.

 

There are lots of ways around that, but they all involve editing styles, so until you get comfortable with that (it's much easier than you may think), you have a method that works.

 

Also—and I say this as a wholly sympathetic super-OCD person myself—"standard" formatting is not nearly as strict as it used to be now that everyone (well, almost everyone—I'm not sure about Ray Bradbury ) writes on a computer. Most publishers, agents, and editors expect to receive files with curly quotes, italics instead of underlining, and fonts that are not always Courier 12 pt. They discourage authors from fancy fonts and from anything other than double spacing; they also expect, in the age of the cheap laser printer, to receive crystal clean, clear copy. But I have been told, for example, that an agent prefers Times New Roman 12 to Courier 12, or even that I should send in an ms. in Times New Roman because it runs to too many pages in Courier.

 

No one insists on straight quotes and underlining these days. They won't shoot you if you send it in, but you need not.

 

Storyist will convert straight quotes to curly if you want it to (I think it is set to do this by default). The control is under the Edit menu: Edit > Substitutions > Smart Quotes. If there is a check mark next to Smart Quotes, Storyist will convert the quote marks as you type; if there is no check mark, it won't. To convert all your existing straight quotes to curly quotes, again go to the Edit menu: Edit > Tools > Convert to Smart Quotes. You can also change italics to underlining (or vice versa) and do a few other useful formatting things through Edit > Tools.

 

Glad that you found something that worked! If you ever want a primer on altering styles, let us know, and we'll walk you through it.

Best,

Marguerite

[Steve]

Steve.... Thanks.... but.. you lost me around the editing styles... First, my text wasn't actually Body text.. it was default style... so... Nothing changed right away? Is it supposed to?

 

Your text would have been Default Style until the Replace Styles step, so you wouldn't have seen a change until then.

 

Also.... would re-defining the heading to chapter style give it the whole starting half way down the page and yada yada? I would really like not to have to define all that stuff myself until I am more comfy with Storyist use in general...

 

Yes, you would have needed to edit the style, which I think is what you were doing in Word, right?

 

Sooo to sum it up, I didn't make it through all your instructions, especially since throwing the raw RTF file into word and give new titles to the styles is much simpler for me to do right now and that I also found a way to get it to work (barring the skeleton in the closet I haven't seen yet).

 

Glad it works.

 

BTW, throwing the file in to Word and throwing it into Storyist accomplish the same thing: applying a style sheet to an un-styled RTF document and editing the styles.

 

-Steve